Author Topic: Desert Fox?  (Read 10766 times)

Le Grand Fromage

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Re: Desert Fox?
« Reply #75 on: March 19, 2017, 05:43:59 PM »
So, when I read your post, I thought:  "Ooh, that's probably a good idea," and I started trying to do it, but the results, I think, are probably more confusing than helpful:



There are just too many numbers there, I think.  From my experience answering player questions, I can say pretty confidently that the more information you put on something, the more people it will confuse. So I've come full circle and decided to leave the CRT as it is, with people just counting the squares.

Bill Owen

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Re: Desert Fox?
« Reply #76 on: March 25, 2017, 06:40:36 PM »
I understand about TMI. But in the spirit of offering constructive suggestions, here’s some more input. I think your Fire chart (I call it that because Combat implies a single die roll to resolve both sides’ impacts) would be much clearer with 3 small adjustments:

A. Add the Hits number on the left (only) and keep the print reading normally, 0°, rather than turned sideways, 90° (as in your example). The caption HITS could read normally, 0°, but Vertical Caps if you think that looks better.

B. Show the range* of Combat Values (CV) not just upper end of the range. You can see what I mean in my 2nd example that follows.

C. Show the dice roll across the top instead. When a gamer approaches the chart he knows his CV and the next thing he looks for is the die roll… which is counter-intuitive to be placed at the bottom. I realize you want them to then read up to the number no higher than their CV… then count back down to see how many boxes = number of hits. Seems like a lot of down, up, down… when a cross-index & the ranges would make it easier and faster.

I hesitate to bring up the next one. If it were me, I would reverse the order so the 0 hits would be the first row and 6 hits at the bottom row. Then the shifts down and up, which would just need to be reversed.

I realize that the playtest group has been doing it this way for some time but they are the “in crowd” and are no longer approaching it “cold” like a blind tester. You will soon have hundreds (thousands?!) looking at this Grid without someone to verbally explain it to them. And you know that some people don't read very well.**

Here’s how most wargamers are used to “doing it" since Avalon Hill’s Tactics II, find die roll down the 1st column & cross-index over to the specific odds or your CV:



Note the fine print line of instructions takes just 21 words instead of the 68 in the rules just for the grids' part of the procedure. Even if you don’t use my suggestions, I think it’s may be helpful to see how it could be reconstructed to meet expectations without having some new buyer tripping over unusual aspects.

I think your game has lots of potential and I want to maximize player adoption rather than have too many reject it over awkward bits.

*I think that ranges are so much simpler than your explanation (my emphasis in italic) where my mind starts to go “push back”. I may be an “average” gamer (used to judge Tractics with stats from memory) but then think about the people on the rest of the bell curve!

counts the number of yellow boxes that show a value equal to, or lower than, his total combat value.

Incidentally, I keep look at the combat explanation and then reading the examples and get tripped up on verifying the number without the ranges.

**You know those people, who ask "I rolled a 2, what happened?" ???

Bill Owen

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Re: Desert Fox?
« Reply #77 on: March 25, 2017, 07:40:38 PM »
You know how you hit enter and think of something else?!

On Combat Shifts, Up or Down ...isn't it really just +1 or -1 to -3 HITS. Or is there a time when this isn't the case?

Of course, people will figure that pretty quickly but why not just start that way?

Then the wording could be simpler & finding the final hit # faster:

If you must apply both pluses and minuses, then apply the pluses first, then the
minuses. You may never shift above the six hits, nor below zero hits.

paulus

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Re: Desert Fox?
« Reply #78 on: March 26, 2017, 02:42:08 AM »
Hi Bill..I'm one of the play testers and yes your right...playtesting the game is much different when the game starts to get proper field trials with the punters..the combat chart has been chopped and changed quite a few times and I've done a few field trials at a Club and to be honest no one commented that it was hard to understand...as in all new game systems they had lots to comment about in other areas but not the combat chart and QRS.

I like your first chart but the second one to me is probably more confusing?...only my opinion though as to be honest the beauty about Rommel is that its very customizable in many areas and especially with the open architecture system with the units it gives games the opportunity to really tinker about with units and scenarios.

I'm looking forward to the release because I expect lots of fan driven content and chat:)

cheers and best wishes

Paul


Bill Owen

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Re: Desert Fox?
« Reply #79 on: March 26, 2017, 05:22:01 PM »
Hi Paul,

1. Thanks for feedback. I may be the only one with this perception.

2. What about my 2nd post about +1 or -1 hits being more to the point than "shifts"? Or is there something in the full rules that shifts don't always correspond to hits?

paulus

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Re: Desert Fox?
« Reply #80 on: March 26, 2017, 11:09:11 PM »
Hi Bill...never had no probs with the shifts?...its pretty much just the same sort of feel?

Brennall

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Re: Desert Fox?
« Reply #81 on: March 29, 2017, 11:40:10 PM »
One of the recent podcasts mention support for Hex terrain instead of squares. How would something like Gaps in his lines work with Hexes (and any other game changes).


Justin Penwith

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Re: Desert Fox?
« Reply #82 on: April 03, 2017, 10:13:28 AM »
Are air assets only represented via the Command Posts or are there different rules for tactical air?


~Justin

Le Grand Fromage

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Re: Desert Fox?
« Reply #83 on: April 03, 2017, 07:50:06 PM »
The different Command Posts have different options for airpower, depending upon the nation and period. It is all on the command posts.

Justin Penwith

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Re: Desert Fox?
« Reply #84 on: April 04, 2017, 08:03:20 AM »
Well, at least that avoids a lot of micro-managing headaches.

Justin Penwith

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Re: Desert Fox?
« Reply #85 on: April 04, 2017, 08:06:29 AM »
Sam,

Would you consider an early pre-order offer for Rommel, with the reward of getting the entire army creation chapter in advance as a pdf?

I, and my mates, need to order miniatures for this, and need to do so in advance. :)


Justin

Brennall

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Re: Desert Fox?
« Reply #86 on: April 04, 2017, 08:14:39 AM »
What Justin said works for me too...

Le Grand Fromage

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Re: Desert Fox?
« Reply #87 on: April 04, 2017, 10:41:29 AM »
Hm, interesting.

I'm in the midst of major renovation of the website and I don't have the time or ability to start a pre-order system at the moment (and in any event, I'm not comfortable with pre-orders in April, for a game that will probably be out in late August or early September.)  Experience has taught me that pre-orders result in 10-20 nervous people emailing me every day, asking if it's here yet.

BUT...  Once the new website is up, perhaps I can put up a substantial part of the Army Builder chapter, just for free.

Justin Penwith

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Re: Desert Fox?
« Reply #88 on: April 04, 2017, 10:48:10 AM »
BUT...  Once the new website is up, perhaps I can put up a substantial part of the Army Builder chapter, just for free.


I can live with that.

Rufus of Rubovia

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Re: Desert Fox?
« Reply #89 on: April 04, 2017, 12:55:00 PM »
I shall be emailing everyday asking if it's up yet  :)