Author Topic: Rommel- Higher level game  (Read 1399 times)

sean walker

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Rommel- Higher level game
« on: June 01, 2017, 11:31:21 AM »
Hi Sam
I love playing Blucher. In this game, you have a high level than the cards to enable large battles at about 500 points a side
Will you have the same for Rommel? Say with each battalion represented by one model?
Thanks
Sean

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Re: Rommel- Higher level game
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2017, 12:55:20 PM »
That's the idea, yes.

Bill Owen

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Re: Rommel- Higher level game
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2017, 08:11:11 PM »
How many kilometers (or miles) does each square represent in the battalion-per-stand variant of the rules?

I ask because I could add a 5th scale to my giant Normandy map project.

https://wargamecampaign.wordpress.com/2017/07/15/d-day-hex-map-series/

Le Grand Fromage

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Re: Rommel- Higher level game
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2017, 04:13:24 AM »
Quote
How many kilometers (or miles) does each square represent in the battalion-per-stand variant of the rules?

There is no such variant in the book. But you can scale the game any way you want, or use any number of points you want.



Bill Owen

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Re: Rommel- Higher level game
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2017, 04:49:09 PM »
Okay, then if rescaled to stands representing battalions instead of companies, the implication is that instead of a kilometer grid, one would have 3 kilometers ...or 2 miles might be close enough.

I realize that each square would then be 9 times the area but usually wargames think of frontages.

OTOH, a typical regimental frontage might be just double a battalion as one battalion might be in reserve. So squares 2 kilometers wide might make more sense.

Le Grand Fromage

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Re: Rommel- Higher level game
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2017, 01:31:40 AM »
You're asking something a bit different from the OP's original question, as he was asking about scaling-up in terms of using more points, having bigger games, etc.  (Not changing the game scales).

During playtesting we did a lot of 1 Unit = 1 Battalion tests, but the scale of artillery units posed a frequent problem. Given a need for "stacking" (i.e., how many units can fit in one area) and the importance of proportionality (how many ART units vis-a-vis other units in a given division), using 1 INF stand to equal 1 INF BN meant that - for example - a Volksgrenadier division might be 8 units (6 infantry and two artillery). That became problematic and distorted the proportions of artillery to other unit types. Meanwhile it also distorted the contribution of artillery to any given combat. Finally, it presented some difficulties when representing mixed-arms units (for example, the practice of detaching a company of tanks to support a battalion or regiment of infantry).

Consequently 1 Unit = @1 Company worked better.

Bill Owen

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Re: Rommel- Higher level game
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2017, 04:10:54 PM »
In addition to ground scale that then represent double/triple distance, that begs the question of time scale too. One would presumably have half or a third the number of turns in a day.

I must have misunderstood what Sean meant by "battalion represented by one model?"

But then I started off thinking that Rommel was at a battalion-per-stand level because a friend and I were discussing that.

I think a company per stand probably is the best level. But you know many gamers, they want to play bigger battles than may be practical. Not that I have ever done that...  ::)

Kontos

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Re: Rommel- Higher level game
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2017, 04:15:47 PM »
In addition to ground scale that then represent double/triple distance, that begs the question of time scale too. One would presumably have half or a third the number of turns in a day.

I must have misunderstood what Sean meant by "battalion represented by one model?"

But then I started off thinking that Rommel was at a battalion-per-stand level because a friend and I were discussing that.

I think a company per stand probably is the best level. But you know many gamers, they want to play bigger battles than may be practical. Not that I have ever done that...  ::)

There comes a point where bigger battles means getting out some old games and use the cardboard counters!
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sean walker

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Re: Rommel- Higher level game
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2017, 05:49:18 AM »
Thanks for this conversation. Bill was right I was increasing the scale and I can now see why you don't like this. For really big battles I will have a go with MegaBlitz or try to convert a board game to a large tactical game played with based figures.
Any suggestions?

cy

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Re: Rommel- Higher level game
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2017, 07:45:55 AM »
If you want really large battles, it might be worth looking at Divisional Commander rules https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/23968/division-commander as well as Megablitz.
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SteveBurt

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Re: Rommel- Higher level game
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2017, 02:41:01 AM »
I tried Megablitz but just found too many holes in the rules; it's more like a toolkit than a finished set of rules.

kentreuber

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Re: Rommel- Higher level game
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2017, 08:23:30 AM »
If you want really large battles, it might be worth looking at Divisional Commander rules https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/23968/division-commander as well as Megablitz.

I like Division Commander; it's essentially an upscaled version of the other Canadian Wargamers Group "Great Battles of WWII" rules.

As mentioned by others, Megablitz seemed unfinished to me.

Another option is a free two-page rules set from Pz8: WW2 Divisional Wargame Rules. Also included in the collection is a platoon scale WW2 rules. http://img.4plebs.org/boards/tg/image/1380/03/1380030702753.pdf

Bill Owen

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Re: Rommel- Higher level game
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2017, 11:54:36 AM »
Reworking boardgames to be more minatures-like has been a general waste of my time. Then again maybe I was just no good at it. The key virtue of miniature rules is their rules are generally universal for a period of history. Whereas boardgames are often uniquely designed for a given battle. And even where the rules are more uniform (like SPI's Quardrigames) they just don't feel right for miniatures. In a sense, miniature games are about process and boardgames are more about relative ease of set-up and tear down.

One spends a lot of reading rules to arrive at (usually) a faster outcome. Then you may never play that game again. Whereas miniature rules that you like you spend less time per hour of playing. Although one could argue that with miniatures rules you have to decide on a map, make the terrain and set up the OB so perhaps the ratio is not that much different. But again, miniatures is largely about making a diorama with moving parts... so a lot of the appeal is the how it process looks. Whereas boardgames are 2D and more abstract.

While not designed for it, Rommel may actually be stretched to work as battalion-per-stand better than most rulesets. If not, here are some suggestions of other rulesets...

Bob Mackenzie's has a variant of the pre-20th century ruleset, Bloody Big Battles: Bloody Big World War II Battles (BBWWIIB if you like acronyms!) which has the special virtue of being free. It is scaled at either a Battalion or Regiment per stand. He suggests using 3mm or 6mm vehicles or infantry stands as strength point markers so by removing models when you lose SPs, you have a very visual tracking of combat value.

Frank Chadwick is doing a Battalion per stand set of rules which has only 3 turns per day: 2 day turns and a a night turn.

While I have not played BBWWIIB and Frank's has not been published, I have been tracking these sets here:
https://wargamecampaign.wordpress.com/category/battalion-per-stand-rules/

sean walker

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Re: Rommel- Higher level game
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2017, 09:29:12 AM »
Hi Bill
Thanks for this reply, the very interesting points you make, and the link the Franks site.
Do you remember reading Fullers Great Battles of the Western World? The first and last battle maps in this set of 3 great books are almost the same. A centre and two wings. One represented the whole (I think) Hittite army of 5,000 men, the other the whole German army in Russia.
I think I will buy Rommel and leave it as it is but....use a Division to represent a larger organisation.
I will also follow Franks endeavours
Kind regards
Sean