Author Topic: Universal (Bren) carriers  (Read 560 times)

KeithS

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Universal (Bren) carriers
« on: September 20, 2017, 03:06:17 AM »
I have a pile (18) GHQ British Universal (Bren) carriers and I would like to use them somehow in Rommel, mostly for aesthetic reasons as I had a few of the old Airfix ones back in the day which I remember quite fondly.  So the question is how best to integrate them into Rommel, a number of possibilities occur to me:

  • 1) Use them as recon vehicles, as per the advanced rules.
  • 2) Use them with an infantry base purely for visual effect and count them as a simple non-motorised rifle battalions.
  • 3) Use them with an infantry base and count them as a motorised battalion
  • 4) Use them with an infantry base and count them as armoured infantry
  • 5) Use them again purely for visual effect to tow light artillery

Interested to hear people's opinions, and any suggestions for other roles?  As I have plenty of them I could use them for several of the roles suggested above, after all they are universal carriers.

Kontos

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Re: Universal (Bren) carriers
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2017, 03:18:02 AM »
I had similar thoughts and had planned to scatter them amongst my motorized infantry to break up the boredom of trucks. Recon as well accompanied by some armored cars.
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Osmoses

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Re: Universal (Bren) carriers
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2017, 03:55:52 AM »
I've a similar issue with Soviet armoured cars. I love the things, so I did some bases before the rules came out. Now I'm not sure what to do with them. I'm a bit dubious about classing them as Armour 1 recon, as there are already actual tanks in the Armour 1 class.

Peter Clarke

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Re: Universal (Bren) carriers
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2017, 04:14:45 AM »
As for the A/C, I guess it depends whether you think they'd give 'Tank Shock' or not.  They could still be recon, even 'armoured', without being tanks as such. 

Peter

fred

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Re: Universal (Bren) carriers
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2017, 04:49:29 AM »
I too have many carriers. I have kind of accepted they won't get on the table in Rommel.

But I would probably use them to indicate Motorised Infantry if I wanted to get them on table. British doctrine was to leave the trucks back, but the carriers would operate up with the troops, so it seems right to have them with the infantry.

I'd be happy to use the odd one as a Recon unit too if needed.

With armoured cars - I'd be fine with classing them as Armour 1, even 2 in some cases, as they were armed as well as many of the lighter tanks. And any armour could give infantry trouble - even late war. I'm thinking of Arnhem were the Recon troops and other light armour and half-tracks of the remnants of the SS Panzer Divs gave the Paras a lot of trouble.

Le Grand Fromage

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Re: Universal (Bren) carriers
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2017, 06:43:26 AM »
I love the Bren carrier; I probably have more of them than any three of you combined!  But I couldn't think of a reason to include them at the scale of Rommel.

Treating armored cars and carriers as "tanks" I think will really skew the game. During playtesting we experimented with all kinds of unit types:  Recon, Engineering, etc, and ultimately decided that we had to define combat as having only one of three "types," hence the three basic unit types.

To diversify more means all kinds of issues with the matrix of possible unit-types, as they interact with each other and with the terrain and with the tactics and events.

It's also arguably that only infantry and armor could really be found "massed" in company-sized units on a regular basis, and that to diversify would really be more appropriate in a game where the scale was 1 unit = 1 platoon.

fred

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Re: Universal (Bren) carriers
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2017, 12:48:08 PM »
Interesting point about the recon unit in the game being used to represent light tanks in the recon role, rather than armoured cars. I hadn't realised this.

I think partly because the icon for recon is an armoured car, and I'd probably skimmed the Russian list that has BTs as a recon option (and miss-reading that for BAs).

I do take the point that the game is looking to deal with large units and how they fight.

SteveBurt

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Re: Universal (Bren) carriers
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2017, 02:35:24 AM »
I'd just use Bren carriers instead of trucks on some of the motorised infantry stands

KeithS

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Re: Universal (Bren) carriers
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2017, 04:05:27 AM »
I'd just use Bren carriers instead of trucks on some of the motorised infantry stands

From the discussion this seems to be the way to go, although I would be inclined to treat Bren carriers and armoured cars as armoured infantry, which I can see is a legitimate category within the game having the mobility but not armour value possessed by 'tanks'.  I am not sure though if there are any specific examples given of motorised units that are not armoured, although that might be a legitimate distinction outside Rommel so that troops in lorries would be motorised but not armoured whereas say troops in half-tracks would be motorised and armoured.  I would also be inclined to allow Bren carriers and armoured cars the recon characteristics in specific circumstances such as British Reconnaissance Corps regiments https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconnaissance_Corps

SteveBurt

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Re: Universal (Bren) carriers
« Reply #9 on: September 21, 2017, 05:56:48 AM »
Most motorised infantry in Rommel are not armoured.
For instance *all* the motorised infantry in the Brevity scenario are not armoured, and I'd think that's true of most of the Western desert fights.
Only troops mounted in halftracks or kangaroos would count as armoured, I think.
So pretty much any British infantry would be motorised but not armoured - same for most Russians.
I think only late war Germans and Americans will be mostly armoured.

john de terre neuve

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Re: Universal (Bren) carriers
« Reply #10 on: September 21, 2017, 06:12:46 AM »
I have about 20 Bren Carriers do to a miscommunication with an order. I will use them on my motorised infantry bases with 2-3 trucks. They will be purely decorative without any specific function.

I like the general idea of having trucks on motorised infantry bases as it makes it obvious what they are. Since I am only planning to do the Western Desert, I believe this ti be appropriate.

Now I just have to get the trucks, in 1/285 scale 2-3 trucks per base can end up being a little expensive as I am hoping to do 12-15 bases. I suppose you could also add one to each artillery base as well.

John
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 06:16:04 AM by john de terre neuve »
Rappelez-vous quel Voltaire a dit; "Dieu n'est pas du côté des grands bataillons, mais est du côté de ceux qui tirent mieux"

NorthWestNerd

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Re: Universal (Bren) carriers
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2017, 06:14:28 AM »
Despite what people think even late war germans had relatively few half tracks. The panzer grenadier regiments were (at best) 1 battalion armoured - the other half motorised.

john de terre neuve

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Re: Universal (Bren) carriers
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2017, 06:20:39 AM »
Quote
Despite what people think even late war germans had relatively few half tracks. The panzer grenadier regiments were (at best) 1 battalion armoured - the other half motorised.

Exactly what I am planning for DAK PzG's, half armoured, half motorized.

John
Rappelez-vous quel Voltaire a dit; "Dieu n'est pas du côté des grands bataillons, mais est du côté de ceux qui tirent mieux"

KeithS

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Re: Universal (Bren) carriers
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2017, 07:14:13 AM »
Most motorised infantry in Rommel are not armoured.
For instance *all* the motorised infantry in the Brevity scenario are not armoured, and I'd think that's true of most of the Western desert fights.
Only troops mounted in halftracks or kangaroos would count as armoured, I think.
So pretty much any British infantry would be motorised but not armoured - same for most Russians.
I think only late war Germans and Americans will be mostly armoured.

Yes you're quite right, I was getting confused by the icons on the right in chapter 11, which I now realise indicate the type of higher level organisation to which the unit can be assigned rather than the unit type itself.  I had taken this on board a while ago but had forgotten again.  ::)

Kontos

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Re: Universal (Bren) carriers
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2017, 08:50:46 PM »
Despite what people think even late war germans had relatively few half tracks. The panzer grenadier regiments were (at best) 1 battalion armoured - the other half motorised.

And Sam seems to have addressed that quite nicely in the lists as even MW Germans can only take 0-1 PGr per KG unless of course you buy them as attachments.
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