Author Topic: Can anyone turn another lost soul around?  (Read 4710 times)

Corporal John

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Can anyone turn another lost soul around?
« on: November 16, 2014, 02:22:48 PM »
Hi Chaps,

We played a Longstreet game yesterday - about our third, of us enjoyed it but another wasn't very happy with the rules. His criticism was as follows:

"I understand what the Author is trying to do and in battle s*** happens. However I don't like the way that the opposing player can direct who that s*** happens to. With the right card I can get an enemy unit to leave its trench work and walk into the open in front of the enemy or suddenly put a swamp by the enemy unit that is likely to damage me. Sure that could happen with confusion of orders but I'd prefer that to happen by chance. I guess its difficult to get a mechanism for "s*** happens" but I prefer the blunder roll, or the missed order roll etc"

I guess my thoughts are that yes that is true but it's more exciting as a game if it happens to a crucial unit rather than one in the back of beyond that doesn't matter. The above examples of card play happened in our game.

I'd be interested to hear anyone else's thoughts on this.

Cheers

Le Grand Fromage

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Re: Can anyone turn another lost soul around?
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2014, 02:51:35 PM »
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I'd prefer that to happen by chance. I guess its difficult to get a mechanism for "s*** happens" but I prefer the blunder roll, or the missed order roll etc"

It did happen by chance.

You just happened to have that card in your hand at exactly the moment that it could be used. There was no way to predict that, especially given all of the ways that cards can leave your hand for other reasons.  And of course, there was no way for the enemy to know what you had in your hand, so it happened to him in an unexpected and unsettling way.

Personally, I think that's a lot more "chance" than a blunder roll that you know in advance always has exactly an X-percent chance of occurring every single turn.

If his objection is to the execution of the card itself, then it's worth mentioning that something like the Confusion card happens a lot less in Longstreet than in a game with blunder rolls, since there can only be one use of the Confusion card per game per side.

docfin

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Re: Can anyone turn another lost soul around?
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2014, 03:26:36 PM »
After the novelty wears off of playing such cards almost as soon as you receive them, we have found that it is the exception rather than the rule that the card is used for its effect,  most cards are used for casualty mitigation. Except the elephant card which gets played almost every game by at least one side with such glee.

Corporal John

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Re: Can anyone turn another lost soul around?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2014, 09:08:01 PM »
I guess that what he dislikes most is that you can choose which unit to affect. I don't think he objects to blunders fog of war or friction or whatever you want to call it.

Probablity wise though, until your first reshuffle, there is a 100% probablity that eventually any card will arrive in your hand and be available for use, if you choose to do so. With a blunder roll a la Black Powder, the probablity remains 1 in 36, which does not vary despite the length of the game. Of course that probablity become 1 in 1 if I'm in command  ;D

I think that with more play (and experience) as docfin says the use of the special cards will decline.

Le Grand Fromage

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Re: Can anyone turn another lost soul around?
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2014, 07:25:54 AM »
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I guess that what he dislikes most is that you can choose which unit to affect.

You could randomize that, when the card is played, without breaking anything about the game. 

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Probablity wise though, until your first reshuffle, there is a 100% probablity that eventually any card will arrive in your hand and be available for use, if you choose to do so.

Actually there are several ways that you might "miss" getting a card.  For example, you might have it in your hand when you enemy does something that forces you to remove cards from your hand. Then in the Reshuffle, that card might be removed from the deck.

More prosaically and more often, however, a card is desperately needed to invoke some phase or for its ability to mitigate casualties.  Having the perfect moment to use the perfect card, and not having needed it for anything else until thenů  well, that's rare but fun.

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With a blunder roll a la Black Powder, the probablity remains 1 in 36, which does not vary despite the length of the game.

Actually the length of the game increases the chances of it happening at least once, because it's a cumulative probability. 

Corporal John

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Re: Can anyone turn another lost soul around?
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2014, 10:01:47 PM »
"Actually the length of the game increases the chances of it happening at least once, because it's a cumulative probability"

Although it's a cumulative probablity, the event of rolling 2 dice is independent from the next roll of two dice. So the probability remains 1/36 per roll of the dice, but as you say the cumulative probability increases. However it never become 100% - it is still possible to roll 10 times consecutively and not roll a 12. Conversely it is theoretically possible, though very unlikely that you could roll 10 consecutive blunders. Of course this would probably break the game and cause the participants to tear out their hair :D

"Actually there are several ways that you might "miss" getting a card.  For example, you might have it in your hand when you enemy does something that forces you to remove cards from your hand. Then in the Reshuffle, that card might be removed from the deck"

Do you not get to chose which cards are discarded? Of course if you only have one card left you'll be forced to lose your special card.

Any way thanks for all of your replies - they've given me food for thought.

Captain Darling

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Re: Can anyone turn another lost soul around?
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2015, 03:19:30 PM »
Hey Cpl John,

I have had this complaints about this card and also marshes/rough ground suddenly appearing before a unit.

You just need to look at history there are occasions where units advanced or withdrew without orders or because of misunderstood orders.

i.e. The Light Brigade charging, what rational player would move a unit to do that on a war game table?
      The Rebel Regiment pulling out of Bloody lane at a crucial time during Antietam, would any gamer withdraw an intact unit in a good position during an
      attack just for the hell of it?

Regarding the swamp that suddenly appears in front of a unit poor surveying of a battlefield or a rain storm can cause such occurrences, I still remember while touring the States and walking the New Orleans battlefield I confidently marched from behind the guns on display into what looked like a field only to sink into sodden soil not pleasant!

Cheers!
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Corporal John

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Re: Can anyone turn another lost soul around?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2015, 09:27:46 PM »
Captain Darling

I agree completely about random events. From my own experience in the army:

We were ordered to survey a hill - turned out that we were sent to one 180 degrees in the wrong direction.

We were ordered to assault the enemy (not real )- started to run across an innocuous looking field - only to sink up to our knees in mud and fall over. In other words almost identical to what happened to you.

I think my friends beef is that the events aren't random, not with random events as such.

j1mwallace

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Re: Can anyone turn another lost soul around?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2015, 03:02:36 AM »
Why not just remove the offending card (s) . Agree to use them but as no effect , or do what we do sometimes. Shuffle and discard the first four cards. (dont look at them ) . There are many things you can do. It doesn't break the game in any way.

SteveBurt

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Re: Can anyone turn another lost soul around?
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2015, 04:51:58 AM »
Agreed. Just don't use those cards if they bother someone. It doesn't break the game.

Captain Darling

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Re: Can anyone turn another lost soul around?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2015, 03:15:07 PM »
Cpl John,

Hmmm, well I'd go with what others have said and agree before you start these cards are only used to initiate an action or to absorb hits or as discards.

Pity for you as they have created some interesting situations in our games.

Cheers!
"There's nothing cushy about life in the Women's Auxiliary Balloon Corps!"
Quote from Blackadder Series IV Episode 4
http://captaindarlingsminiaturesemporium.blogspot.com.au
http://toysoldiersforoldgits.blogspot.com.au/

Corporal John

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Re: Can anyone turn another lost soul around?
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2015, 10:06:29 PM »
Thanks for your answers. I 'll try to get him to play a game using one of these suggestions.