Author Topic: multiple attackers - how does defending cavalry square up  (Read 624 times)

garyp

  • Play Testers
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 73
    • View Profile
multiple attackers - how does defending cavalry square up
« on: December 05, 2016, 02:22:38 AM »
I think we are doing most things mostly in line with the rules now but the squaring up rules for cavalry continue to through up odd situations.

If I am attacking a cavalry defender, the cavalry squares up to the attacker is seemingly straight forward. But....

1. if I charge the cavalry in the flank with a single attacker, does the defending cavalry square up and the charge is no longer a flank contact.
2. if I want to charge with two attackers, do I move them into contact one at a time and when does the cavalry defender square up, immediately after the first attacker contacts or after both attackers have contacted.
2A. how does the squaring up process work if the attackers are coming from different directions and contact at odd angles (that is, the attackers are NOT perfectly lined up, adjacent and in side edge contact).
2B. is the only way that i can get two attackers to contact a defending cavalry unit frontally by having them start perfectly lined up, adjacent and in side edge contact at the beginning of their movement (and assuming all the other qualifiers of H1.22 have been met by both attacking units).

Thanks for any assistance on this. The infantry contacts are certainly much simpler to work out. Gary

 
 

cy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • View Profile
    • Three Decks - Warships in the Age of Sail
Re: multiple attackers - how does defending cavalry square up
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2016, 05:39:34 AM »
1/ Yes it squares up and is not a flank attack
2/One at a time and the defender squares up after the first makes contact, this is the way to get a flank attack on cavalry.
Gro▀Herzog von ▄berwasserweitweitweg

garyp

  • Play Testers
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 73
    • View Profile
Re: multiple attackers - how does defending cavalry square up
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2016, 06:42:49 PM »
Thanks cy.

So actually it appears that we are doing this incorrectly. Effectively it is not possible to get 2 attacking units to contact a SINGLE, ISOLATED defender frontally.

1. If I charge a single, isolated infantry unit I must square up to it leaving no room for a second frontal attacker. A second attacker can only make a flank contact if it is eligible to do so, or move adjacent to the defender and cause the flanking modifier to apply.
2. If I charge a single, isolated cavalry unit, the cavalry must square up again leaving no room for a second frontal attacker. etc.

So, the only way I can end up with two attackers contacting a defender frontally is if the first attacker contacts two defenders at the same time and the squaring up process leaves part of each defender's front edge exposed. I assume that a second attacker can then contact the front of one of those defenders on their exposed front edge (like in the example in I2.7 - page 29).

Is that correct - thanks again for any clarification. This is really the only mechanic that is causing us "what the????" moments. Gary







cy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • View Profile
    • Three Decks - Warships in the Age of Sail
Re: multiple attackers - how does defending cavalry square up
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2016, 01:54:49 AM »
To allow multiple attackers, we generally play that the attacker squares up by swiveling to be parallel, but the corner to corner slide is optional, defending cavalry has no option, it can't slide, so can leave bits sticking out.
Gro▀Herzog von ▄berwasserweitweitweg

garyp

  • Play Testers
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 73
    • View Profile
Re: multiple attackers - how does defending cavalry square up
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2016, 02:28:19 AM »
To allow multiple attackers, we generally play that the attacker squares up by swiveling to be parallel, but the corner to corner slide is optional, defending cavalry has no option, it can't slide, so can leave bits sticking out.

So against infantry you allow two attackers to declare a simultaneous frontal charge and square up together against the single, isolated defender - that is how we have actually been playing it.

But I am not following your cavalry answer - "defending cavalry has no option, it can't slide, so can leave bits sticking out." - could you expand on this please.

Thanks for your patience - this is really the only rule that is causing us any issues and would be good to understand how it is intended to be done. Gary

cy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • View Profile
    • Three Decks - Warships in the Age of Sail
Re: multiple attackers - how does defending cavalry square up
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2016, 11:06:50 AM »
Defending cavalry effectively wheels into frontal contact. So one corner, that all ready in contact remains stationary. If the attacker hits the defender on a front corner with the center of his base, half the defender sticks out the side and can then be charged.

We don't allow attackers to move two units at once, however they also wheel/pivot at the point of contact, but may then optionally slide to come into front and corner to corner contact. A second unit may be able to charge if there is some defender accessible.

We're playing tommorrow for the first time in ages, so expect us to get it all wrong.
Gro▀Herzog von ▄berwasserweitweitweg

garyp

  • Play Testers
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 73
    • View Profile
Re: multiple attackers - how does defending cavalry square up
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2016, 03:28:27 PM »
Thanks again cy.

I have had another look through the rules and cannot see a single explicit reference to multiple attackers making contact with a single defender. And H1.2 says in bold "must" square-up" so no reference to an "optional" slide to conform. It is possible to infer that H1.22c. on page 23 applies to a second attacker if a cavalry defender wheels while squaring up to an attacker and thereby exposes it's flank to a second charger. Additionally, if an attacker contacts two defenders there will be sections of the defender's front edge "sticking out" which could be contacted by a second attacker as per the "Complex Combat Example Two" diagram on page 29. All the references appear to be to one attacker possibly contacting two defenders.

Certainly a strict application of H1.2 makes the process quite simple but does not seem to address some of the situations we have come across in our recent games.

I think we will probably just agree amongst ourselves that two attackers may charge together against a single isolated defender if they both start the turn adjacent and "perfectly" lined up in side edge and front corner to front corner contact with each other, and both have the defender in their frontal perspective at the start of their turn. The bit that will probably cause the most discussion is how "perfectly" lined up the attackers need to be as situations will undoubtedly arise when attackers start quite close together but not necessarily perfectly so. Statistically it may not make a lot of difference anyway as A) adding the SP of two attackers against that of a single defender, may be little different to B) comparing the SP of a single attacker against that of a single defender who is flanked (but not contacted) by the second attacker and suffers the -3 modifier.

Good luck with your game and thanks again for the discussion.

garyp

  • Play Testers
  • Jr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 73
    • View Profile
Re: multiple attackers - how does defending cavalry square up
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2016, 05:53:33 PM »
Also i notice you postscript - Uberwasserweitweitweg - Over water (overseas) a long, long way away.

How would i say from Down Under (Australia) - vonrunterhinunter.

Regards gary


cy

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
    • View Profile
    • Three Decks - Warships in the Age of Sail
Re: multiple attackers - how does defending cavalry square up
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2016, 03:47:27 AM »
I think a better translation is "Over the water and far, far away". It's my Maurice campaign nationality.

How about "von unterseite der welt" for From Down Under? literally "from the bottom of the world".

BTW, all my talk is based on the way we play, not necessarily following a strict interpretation of the rules.
Gro▀Herzog von ▄berwasserweitweitweg

srmlaw

  • Play Testers
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Posts: 313
    • View Profile
Re: multiple attackers - how does defending cavalry square up
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2017, 07:09:24 AM »
For what it is worth, I also cannot see that anywhere in the rules multiple attackers can contact a single defender frontally.  The only case where the rules seem to allow it would be where a single attacker has moved into frontal contact with two defenders, and further attackers can contact the ends of the defending units not in contact with the initial attacker.

However, there is a tantalising suggestion that things can be different in the Tips and Tactics download.  In the second paragraph on the Ottomans, it says "Your numbers are such that you can land 2:1 frontal attacks, plus flanking bonuses ..."

Quite frankly, we play it that as long as both attackers have the defender "to the front" and the charge is otherwise valid, then both attackers can contact the defender.  Both attackers move together, not one after the other.

Stephen