Author Topic: Towed Anti-Tank Guns and Counter-Battery Fire  (Read 907 times)

RayS

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Towed Anti-Tank Guns and Counter-Battery Fire
« on: November 16, 2017, 05:02:00 PM »
Good Day,

I have read the optional rule concerning Anti-Tank guns but would like to ask if anyone has tried to create dedicated anti-tank gun units within the game or what the reasons were for their removal? 

While low level anti-tank guns would be assigned at the battalion and below level and thus are part of the formations present, divisions often had dedicated anti-tank regiments with larger guns and multiple batteries.  Regiments which would be assigned to locations deemed of high threat to tank action.  Right now my thought would be to follow something similar to the Tank Hunter rules with a 2-1-1 rating but an armour value in defence and nothing in attack but this is the best that has come to mind.

Second question, how do you conduct counter-battery fire in this game?  Can I fire my artillery at a hex with enemy artillery?  There does not appear to be a mechanic to permit this.

Thank you

Le Grand Fromage

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Re: Towed Anti-Tank Guns and Counter-Battery Fire
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2017, 06:15:45 PM »
Quote
Can I fire my artillery at a hex with enemy artillery?

You can only fire artillery into a square that you're attacking, i.e. an area in which you have an Observer within 1km.

RayS

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Re: Towed Anti-Tank Guns and Counter-Battery Fire
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2017, 09:52:47 AM »
Hi,

Thank you for confirming that there is no possibility to conduct counter-battery fire in this game. 

The increase in anti-tank units and density is a large reason for the failure in tank attacks as the war progressed.  One need only think of Kursk, Normandy, or the battles around Budapest to see the impact of massed anti-tank regiments.  This coupled with the increase in divisional anti-tank allocations is, in my view, an important factor to consider and include. I was wondering what the design rational was for not including anti-tank units in this game?  In particular divisional level anti-tank units.

With regards to counter-battery fire was pioneered and some may argue perfected in the First World War.  My thought is that an artillery unit can fire another artillery unit with the first hit tipping a unit and the second hit destroying the unit.  However, that is just my initial thoughts and I will have to play test these proposed changes.

I will be testing both of these changes in future games and, if the community is interesting I will share my results.

Ray


Peter Clarke

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Re: Towed Anti-Tank Guns and Counter-Battery Fire
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2017, 10:27:15 AM »
I guess we are playing the division or corps commander, not their subordinate Commander, Royal Artillery.
In Rommel, the artillery war has been severely abstracted. Perhaps if one side had a major advantage, you could consider reducing the artillery units and/or tactics of the other side.
If I were to suggest anything else it might be a counter-battery event that would allow you to tip an enemy battery at the start of your turn.  But I haven't sufficient game experience to know what cost that would be, or what impact it might have on play balance.

Peter

RayS

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Re: Towed Anti-Tank Guns and Counter-Battery Fire
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2017, 05:44:45 AM »
Peter,

I agree that we are playing as a divisional and corps commander in this game.  My understanding of being a corps or divisional commander (from observation only) is that you worry about corp and divisional level assets.  Of which, artillery is one.

Further in both the Russian and British military system if you are a divisional or corps commander you likely either have had experience or worked closely with artillery in the past.  In both of these armies artillery is considered to be their arm of decision.  To play in this period and not identify the impact of this arm would have is unrepresentative of the period.  There is a reason why the Germans called it the Allied murder weapon.   
 
Finally, if you are are a allied divisional commander, the artillery (and logistics to support it) represent nearly a 1/4 of your personnel and more then a 1/4 of your combat power.  I have included the Canadian TO&E for documentation. 

Artillery, was, and indeed still is, extremely important at the divisional and corp level.

http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2016/mdn-dnd/D63-5-57-1952-eng.pdf

Charles Eckart

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Re: Towed Anti-Tank Guns and Counter-Battery Fire
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2017, 04:42:29 AM »
Counter battery fire and ATG concentrations could fit nicely within the existing framework of Rommel by using events or tactics additions. Maybe even markers as done with engineers and boats. Some play testing should show where they could be best added and the costs.
 

fred

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Re: Towed Anti-Tank Guns and Counter-Battery Fire
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2017, 03:36:15 PM »
Have you seen the optional massed AT rules that are available for download?

I can understand why you might want to included counter battery fire, but from the games we have played it doesn't feel necessary, artillery is fairly limited as is. And some of the existing tactics and events give some extra artillery effects.