Some nations used "Lieb" quite a lot. Whether they indeed were elite or not is the problem. The same is true for the French Imperial Guard or the British foot Guards too, at times they were beaten by regular line regiments.

Hussars Valiant Amateur
Uhlan Reliable Amateur
Avante Garde Reliable Amateur
Line Shaky Amateur

But what of the Leibgarde Max - are you suggesting they are just shaky line! And you'll have Cam up in arms with all these 'non-shaky' Brunswick units...!

Very interesting discussion John.
MHO
Hussars Valiant Amateur
Uhlan Reliable Amateur
Avante Garde Reliable Amateur
Line Shaky Amateur

Thanks Michael & Max.

One of the biggest challenges is how to rate the 1815 Brunswickers. In this game I made them:

Hussar Regiment: Valiant/Experienced
Uhlan Squadron: Reliable/Experienced

Leibgarde Battalion: Valiant/Amateur
Avante Garde Battalion: Reliable/Experienced
6 Line/Light Battalions: Unpredictable/Amateur

I also used similar ratings for the Hussars, Leibgarde, and 4 Line/Light Btns in our Crossroads Game back in May. I'm reasonably comfortable Unpredictable/Amateur is right for the Line & Light Battalions (Cam just thinks the whole force should be Shaky/Amateur) - this game I was fairly lucky and got 2 of 6 Btns as Valiant, 2 others were Shaky, 1 got destroyed while nominally still Reliable, and the last never got tested. In the Crossroads game I think I ended up with 1 Valiant, 2 Shaky, and 1 untested IIRC. While Valiant may seem a bit generous on random occasions Unpredictable does I think, combined with Amateur status, reflect the 1815 Brunswickers well - based on the accounts such as Cavalié Mercer's at Waterloo where they looked always shaky but never actually broke although they were probably not capable of much offensive action I'd argue that in some respects the units were at times worthy of Valiant status just be virtue of remaining intact when raw recruits surrounded by charging cav and being pounded by artillery...

Assuming the above supposition is correct then the Valiant/Amateur status for the Leibgarde (as Sam himself rated them) also seems reasonable, I previously rated them Reliable/Amateur in the Crossroads game, which may be more realistic, however as there is a small chance some of the Line & Light Battalions may get lucky and be Valiant it seems only fair to allow the Leibgarde to be Valiant from the start - it is not completely unhistorical IMO and coupled with Amateur status and only SK1 still leaves them at a disadvantage overall to the their typical French opponents. I can't see Unpredictable working as I'd have thought the high risk of being Shaky a bit unreasonable considering their (apparent) status compared to the Line & Light Battalions?

As mentioned Cam argues they should all be Shaky (scoffing at the notion of the occasional Valiant Brunswick unit) ;-) i.e. the Line & Light Battalions would be all Shaky and then arguably the Leibgarde might perhaps be Unpredictable to allow for the chance of them being exceptional on the day (or at least Reliable)...

The real question though is probably the Avante Garde and the Cavalry, whether Shaky or Unpredictable, I don't think it makes a huge difference for the 7 standard Infantry Battalions. For the Avante Garde I've assumed a certain level of competency - the training for the 2 Light Infantry Companies as Skirmishers, and the type of recruits for the 2 Jäger Companies (independent minded hunters/game keepers/etc) suggests more ability - hence I dabbled with Reliable/Experienced for this, their inaugural outing, but perhaps Unpredictable/Experienced might be a more suitable rating (or even Shaky/Experienced)? I have trouble seeing them as Amateur for the reasons above (when compared to the their fellow Brunswick Battalions) although there is some suggestion at Quatre Bras that although they fought for a prolonged period in and around the wood, they weren't especially effective or aggressive, so perhaps I am being too generous considering Experienced for this battalion?

For the Cavalry I've gone with Valiant/Experienced for the Hussars which again is as Sam rated them originally in the rulebook - and they do seem to have been the best regarded Brunswick unit in the Hundred Days - however perhaps again Valiant/Amateur might be a more appropriate rating (I'm loathe to go Reliable/Experienced as that just makes them seem so plain), but in some ways Amateur doesn't impact cavalry as much as it does infantry so it's more a semantic change? However the key thing is at Waterloo the Brunswick Hussars appear to have charged several times against the French Cavalry and performed well enough to be capable of reforming and charging again, etc, meaning perhaps Amateur would be unreasonable...

The Uhlans are perhaps the hardest to rate, and perhaps also the most deserving of Unpredictable - although once again Cam thinks they should just be outright Shaky! I certainly think that Reliable/Experienced is probably a bit generous (but it was their inaugural outing - not that it helped much in the end), and that in future I'll rate them Amateur for sure, and possibly Shaky, otherwise Unpredictable - but if the Hussars are for example Valiant/Amateurs, then perhaps the Uhlans should be Shaky/Amateurs - as they don't seem to have figured as prominently nor been rated as highly as the Hussars (although many accounts just treat the Uhlans as a squadron of the Hussar Regiment, so don't make much specific reference making it hard to say).

So some slightly revised ratings for their next outing might be:

Hussar Regiment: Valiant/Amateur or Reliable/Experienced
Uhlan Squadron: Unpredictable/Amateur

Leibgarde Battalion: Valiant/Amateur
Avante Garde Battalion: Unpredictable/Amateur or Reliable/Amateur
6 Line/Light Battalions: Shaky/Amateur* or Unpredictable/Amateur

* I'm not sure if they deserve to be rated no better then Poor or Inexperienced Landwehr - I think Unpredictable helps to give them that slight edge as inexperienced Regulars over inexperienced Landwehr.

Very enjoyable. Another AAR featuring the Brunswikers please!

Wonderful AAR.... and I love your figures. I am toying around with a quatre Bras scenario myself. Of course until I get more Brit allies painted my saxons will just have to do..

Thanks Paul & Gary - appreciate the comments...

...useful material on your blog

...Auckland seems to be a wargaming Mecca! :-)

Yes great looking game and Auckland seems to be a wargaming Mecca ! :-)

Excellent AAR John!.....nice to see the Brunswickers on the table ....keep up the good work.

Paul:)

thanks for all the useful material on your blog:)

My full Brunswick Corps got it's first official outing as a complete entity a few weeks ago against Cam's French - it was an all action nail biter for most of the game and you can read about it on my blog. I hope someone finds it interesting and/or enjoyable and/or inspiring...

P.S. Apologies in advance for any typos or grammar or similar errors - it turned into a bit of a novel and I haven't had time to do a second thorough end to end proof read yet!

John
Wargaming.info

Guys - what tournament scoring system did you use for CTA 2011?

I had 1806 Prussian Infantry + Reserve cavalry (2 Cuirassiers + 2 Dragoons).

I could not whine about Organic cavalry being overpowered and then take them to a comp!

Cam

BTW - Any chance of getting a summary of everyone's armies - what options they took/forces...?

LintMan's posted his (1815 Prussians) on his blog, and gives an indication of Bryan's Young Guard (YG + YG Inf Support), Paul's Peninsula French (with Dragoon Brigade Support), and Simon's British Guard (with Brunswick Brigade Support) - so what was the make up of the other 2 armies?

1806 Prussians (Cam)
British Light Division

I'm guessing Cam had a Prussian Infantry with a Prussian Heavy Dragoon Brigade in support? Did the British Light Division go with a Light Cavalry Brigade in support?

Just FWIW - link to post with Cam and My AAR of our practice game of the CTA Scenario a couple of weeks before the Tournament - Lasalle: The Trouble With Tribbles:
http://www.sammustafa.com/honour/forum/topic/lasalle-the-trouble-with-tribbles

Hey guys,

Any tips or short cuts on organising a Lasalle comp? Anything to be wary of?

Thanks
Tom

http://lintmanswarblog.blogspot.com/

Has some updates on the event.

looking forward to some reports ana few pics..........Paul

how did it all go fellas?

:P

I had planned everything perfectly to finish exactly 5mins before the comp kicked off. Any earlier would be bad form.

Then we had a power cut (on Auckland's coldest day ever - only 8C!). That forced me to do some painting under torchlight. Somewhat depressingly I could see no difference between my normal painting standard and my torchlight standard. Which does not say much for my ability. But maybe I could win a "painted by candlelight" painting award?

Cam

Hi Cam,

Heres some answers to your questions.

1, Nope.... he is locked into the same command for the whole turn.

2, You read it right, but it must be at least the size of the extra troops

3, We will see how it all works out. Sorry not the best answer but I don't think it will be that bad.

Its a wargaming comp you are suppose to leave things to the last moment :)

Cheers

Tim

Looking forward to Saturday - except I still have the officers to paint, 2 units to put on bases, all the bases to be flocked ...

Couple of questions for CTA on Saturday.

The Commander can only command units from the same core or support choice in the
Reaction, Combat and Activity Phases.

Does this mean in the same turn he can command different forces from the Core and Support? So say command a Core force in the Reaction phase, then command a Support force in the Combat phase, then command a Core force in the Activity phase?

So it is only that he cannot command BOTH Core and Support troops in the same PHASE?

In the Take By Force scenario, can objectives only be placed in the open or anywhere on the centre line? If yes, then if due to terrain and previous objective placement, an objective cannot be placed, what happens?

both the Attacker and the Defender get the bonus battalions and the extra General. These extra troops count as a separate Brigade for the Deployment phase.

Does this mean the bonus troops and officer must form a separate Brigade (with no other troops), or that the Core + Bonus must be in two brigades (but can be mixed as the player wants).

So if I have a core of 6 battalions + artillery, and an attacking bonus of 2 battalions, do I have to have two brigades consisting of an Officer/6 inf/artillery and Officer/2 inf? Or can I mix and match as long as I have two brigades? I presume the 2nd - but it reads like the first.

In a draw the army that has lost the most amount of units is the loser.

This rule is just being mean to big bad armies - an army losing a lower % of their army can end up losing. OK, using early Prussians I may be a tad biased on this rule.

Main thing I worry about with the objective focus on the comp is that bloody horse artillery will be doing cheesy moves to ride up limbered to contest objectives late in the game. This is particularly easy for horse artillery because of their very long move and since they are mostly only 1 base when limbered. An attacker in the normal scenario loses 2-5 if they don't contest the objective, but could turn that to 2-2 or 3-2 draw if they can get a single artillery base within 4BW of the objective.

Looking forward to Saturday - except I still have the officers to paint, 2 units to put on bases, all the bases to be flocked ...

Cam

Damn - I was looking forwards to meeting you in person (and seeing your nice Hundred Days British). Remember that JetStar flights can be quite cheap...

Actually if I had come down I was hoping to bring my 1815 Nassauers (with a few Dutch/Belgians making up the numbers) as they are just about ready to see action! ;-)

Remember that JetStar flights can be quite cheap...

.
I was gonna drive down - and I wouldn't take the army on the plane - too much risk (both damage and/or not getting it in the cabin). Especially the Brits with the high numbers of fragile plastic infantry, etc...

...And I still haven't figured out a decent storage system - as my planned Eastlight/Colorado Foolscap File Boxes (with self adhesive steel in the bottom) are a no go due to the height of the Infantry standards & Cavalry with raised swords, standards, etc...

When are you Auckland guys going to put on a Lasalle tourney?

Might be a chance of something at BattleCry in February if someone like Cam & I or such get organised and arrange things with the organisers... But AFAIK Auckland Lasalle Players are fairly evenly split between 15mm & 28mm so might make having minimum numbers (before out of town visitors) a bit problematic...

:-)

Cam,

I am using the Empire Young Guard list (No cavalry).
But I am using it to represent part of Lannes corps at Austerlitz. Suchets division.

I beleive the same troops and structure fought at Jena so if we meet it will almost be an historical clash.

I am also greatly looking forward to the weekend.

Cheers
Bryan

Damn - I was looking forwards to meeting you in person (and seeing your nice Hundred Days British). Remember that JetStar flights can be quite cheap...

When are you Auckland guys going to put on a Lasalle tourney?

Cheers

Paul

Making excuses before you have even started, eh... ;-p

FTR I'm definitely not gonna make it which is a real bummer, I was looking forward to a few games and meeting up with everyone...

So how many people are playing Lasalle at CTA next week?

I am (although I have had no actual confirmation back). Will I have anyone to play?

1806 Prussians for me - basically Graf von Schmettau's Left Wing at Auerstadt. Put in a terrible day's effort at Auerstadt and Schmettau ended up dead, so if I get smashed I will just compliment Sam on how historical Lasalle is.

(Well it should be the Prussians but I still have one more cav unit to paint, and the officers, and I need to base the entire army, and I really should try to do some limbers, and the facing colours on two units should really be redone ...)

Cam

Did you go back and repost them all? ;-p

Sam banned me from posting to the forum so I had get a new name. He says a "technical glitch" meant that while I could post nobody could see my posts ... but I think it was an attempt to silence me from telling The Truth About Squares in Lasalle.

It did take me about 57 posts to realise that nobody was actually responding to me. I was carrying on some really interesting discussions with myself.

Cam

hey - what's with the new moniker?