Regarding the optional rule (that I think is reaqlly cool, even if it involves extra painting)for 'creating irregular units'. Just a thought that not all units wioth SK2 are created equal. Yes neat idea to take a French elite light infantyr unit and make a irregular unit out of it that could go off n skirmish. But from my meager reading of the Prussian 1813 army, the infantry, regular gernadier et al got skirmishers assigned to them in company strength. So tho the unit has a SK2 value, they shouldnt take advantage of that optional rule. Just a thought I wanted to bounce off ya all. Hope we get that game together this weekend n try out the rules. Im wringing my hands raw plotting nasty suprises with my Prussian howitzer battery.
A rules question, well opinion really...
(10 posts) (4 voices)-
Posted 2 years ago #
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Well, if you're doing a scenario in which Prussian battalions got company-sized units of skirmishers assigned to them, then that's easily handled by giving them an enhanced SK rating of 3. In fact, that's the sort of thing that the "Enhanced Skirmishers" rule is for.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Yup, but for creating Irregular units, seems that some battalions like the Prussians would have a SK rate of 2 or 3 but shouldnt be able to be fielded as a irregular unit. They have some specialists that gives them a SK rate or 2 or 3. Yet the enite unit isnt skirmish trained I would imagine.
Posted 2 years ago # -
It depends on what you think of the Fusiliers. Opinions differ on what their level of competence was, regarding skirmishing. As you'll note in the Prussian army list, I don't distinguish between the Fusilier battalions and the infantry, for the first 12 regiments. I assume that there are enough skirmishers in the regiment, though, to stiffen the SK screen, or to deploy in woods, buildings, etc. And I'm pretty confident that Prussian reserve regiments were capable.
BTW - an amusing coda to this discussion: You know how the Prussian army list has been up on the website as a sample download? Last month I got a long letter from a guy in France who wanted to take issue with my use of the term "Amateur" to describe the reserve regiments in 1813. He sent me photocopied sections of old German texts to back up his argument.
I've learned long ago that no matter what rating I assign to any unit, it will be disputed. So the default answer simply has to be: if designing an historical scenario, do the unit values any way you like.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Interesting discussion.
One of the oft overlooked aspects of the Napoleonic wars is that as time went by and France's enemies got better tactically, the French got worse. One the reaosns I like wargaming the latter period of the Napoleonic wars is the levelling effect.
So, whilst Prussians may have had, on paper a lower skirmisher capability than the French, the French army had an increasing issue with the poor quality of the recruits (literally - poor quality specimens as they were often under age) and the lack of training that the pressure of operations allowed. Post 1812, I suspect, the French had lost much of their tactical edge and "Light Infantry" regiments were really just the same as Line infantry - just in a different uniform.
Another aspect is that when light battalions deployed into skirmish formations, this really meant that 1/3 to 1/2 of the battalion was deployed as skimishers, the balance would remain in close formation as "supports". This allowed the skirmish line to be reinforced as required from the "parent" unit and the skimishers to fall rally back if threatened. So, I actually prefer the skirmish system from the "basic" Lasalle rules - but that is simply a matter of taste.
Finally, the Prussian doctrine of 1813+ placed great emphasis on skirmishers. In all battalions, except Landwehr, the third rank was trained as skirmishers. When you add the jager companies liberally attached to line battalions, it probabaly gave the Prussians an edge over the French in this department.
Fortuneately for the French, the Prussian higher command often couldn't match the depoth of experience of French commanders. They really only got their act together in 1815.
David_W
So,
Posted 2 years ago # -
David
Regarding the French getting worse. I am inserting another category of French Infantry for 1815,[Regular Infantry] Reliable/Amateur/SK2
Mark
Newcastle, AustraliaPosted 2 years ago # -
Bear in mind that dropping unit quality from Experienced to Amateur makes them considerably less swift when changing formation, and less likely to pass the Discipline Tests needed for Reactions... thus (for one example) more likely to be caught not in square and broken by cavalry.
Posted 2 years ago # -
True Sam
That is my initial reaction to seeing the French stats for 1815. I completely understand where you are coming from making the Line Reliable/Experienced as they are the side that will do most of the attacking in games.
Though, it was not my intention to declare all line Reliable/Amateur for 1815.
Mark
Newcastle, AustraliaPosted 2 years ago # -
Mark
depending on who you read, Napoleon's 1815 army was the best he had fielded since pre-1812 or a parnoid bunch expecting betrayal at any moment. Same applies to his oppoenents. the brits were a mixed bunch - peninsular veterans and green recruits. the Dutch Belgians contained expereinced officers and lots of raw recruits - who performed amazingly well. But again, depending on who you read.
However, I think the relaity lies somewhere in between.
Good luck Mark
Davoid_W
Yass NSWPosted 2 years ago # -
I believe somewhere in between too.
Mark
Posted 2 years ago #
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