We played our first game last nite...interesting Order sequence. We threw a coupla French columns into a line but couldnt figure out how the line can possibly survive as the worst the firing can do is put 2 Dsr on one column which makes them lose 2 dice in the combat( 16-2 =14 vs 8)...am I missing something??
confused
Zels
Remember that in order to break the defender, the attacker has to score DOUBLE the number of hits. Statistically that means that on average, he needs double the number of dice.
Assuming the Line did a really crappy job shooting, and nobody else was shooting at either column, let's say the attackers only suffered 1 DISR between them, going in. That means they get 15 dice, versus 8 for the Defender. (Assuming all other things being equal.) Not quite enough.
If you -don't- double the defender, then the combat is Inconclusive, meaning that he suffers 1DISR and falls back. Worse - if the defender manages to equal or beat your number of hits, then EACH attacking unit suffers 1 DISR and falls back, which can get really ugly really fast.
We're making a lot of assumptions here, too:
1. That the defender didn't choose to Fall Back, as a Reaction
2. That nobody else managed to shoot at those two attack columns over the past couple of turns as they got close
3. That nobody has any advantages for SK, Esprit, terrain, etc.
One of the things I noticed over and over again when observing the many playtest games was that new players initially think: "Wow, this game really favors the attacker!"
And after two or three games they realize: "Wow, it's really hard for the attacker to win!" (There's a reason the army lists give extra units to the attacking side.) A defender in Line has the advantage that he's covering more front with fewer units and thus probably has a reserve nearby... not to mention that his artillery is a lot more useful than the attacker's, which is often masked by his own advancing columns. If the attacker wants to shoot before he goes in, then the turn sequence means that he has to leave himself within musketry range in the defender's upcoming Reaction Phase, and thus he'll get shot *twice* (in that turn, and in the next turn when he actually charges), while only being able to shoot at the defender once. A clever defender can also retrograde move a bit, thus prolonging the time he'll get to shoot at the attacker.
As you play more you'll find a number of advantages to being on the defense, and ways to torment your opponent.
My monteCarlo simulation(5000 trials) says with 1 disrupt I have a 52% chance of rolling the Line(ie dead) with my 2 columns...with a 21% chance of being bounced off with 1 disr to each(NB this drops to 48% with 2 disrupts...hardly significant)..I know which odds im taking
appart from Fallback ( which just prolongs the contest) I cant see the line winning straight up as theres no way the line to get 2 shots as columns can always start outside of musketry range
Looks like I'll be looking for an army where i can maximise a concentration of cheap columns...
Think about those numbers within the context of the whole game. You commit two units versus one, and still only have about a 50% of winning outright. Are you sure those are such great odds?
Given the small armies in Lasalle, how often do you think you can do that, and given the relative balance of the size of the armies, what do you think the defender is doing with his other units?
We had a playtester with a French army list that included 13 (!) infantry battalions (Peninsular French, plus a Conscript brigade in organic support), plus dragoons and artillery. He went up against an Austrian infantry brigade that was having dreadful luck getting its reserve cavalry to show up.... and still lost. The Austrians were outnumbered 2-to-1 all along the line, but with their better Discipline were more often able to recover DISR. (And some clever tactical retreating didn't hurt, trading space for time.) In fact, in one case *three* French conscript battalions attacked a long Austrian line and still didn't break it.
Aside from the difficulties I've already mentioned, there are two other things that trouble an attacker: Firstly, the defender only has to inflict 3 DISRs on a normal infantry unit to render it unable to attack, because you can't charge when you're 1 DISR away from breaking. And secondly, the recovery rules favor the side that isn't moving. Thus the defender's units can simultaneously inflict more punches, and take more.
I'm telling ya.... Attacking in Lasalle is hard! We played the hell out of this game and people were still grumbling that the Attacker's Bonus should be bigger.
That said, if you do indeed want to get a horde of "cheap columns", then I recommend something like the Liberation-period French army. Hope you're a speed-painter, though! Those lists are big!
yes but lets not forget that 50% chance of a kill is gone forever while a setback for the columns can be recovered..
Hey after one game I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt ...we played the waterloo scenario in the book where the French outnumber the Brits...and the brits just got rolled by the columns way too easily and looked helpless depite "superior" shooting/position....the ease and the maths just puzzled/alarmed me....
Couple of things from my reading:
Musketry range is 4BW and a column moves 4 BW so the line must be able to shoot at the column at least twice. Probably still only means 1 DISR per attacking column and the columns get one round of shooting also so may inflcit 1 DISR on the line but the line has a better chance of recovering the DISR.
If the line reacts to the charge by changing to column itself then both the attacking columns will be reduced to half the number of combat dice (enemy covers half or less of the attackers front) unless the columns are moving in at some sort of an angle to prevent the change of formation (if the line cannot maintan contact with both the attackers) or still have sufficient frontal coverage after the formation change. I am guessing not a very historical reaction by the line - cannot see that it is disallowed?
The particular scenario you guys played has a significant imbalance in unit numbers in favour of the French. Will the army lists generally generate this sort of imbalance in unit numbers.
The La Haie Sainte scenario features outnumbered Brits, who are however in a covered position (the sunken road), allowing them to shoot at the approaching French without much fear of being shot in return. Even if only one Brit unit is indeed hit by two French columns while defending that obstacle, and assuming the Brits do only 2 DISRs in total, the odds are probably something like: 14 French dice versus 10 Brit dice (bonus for cover... more dice if we're talking about the elite Rifles)- likely not enough to double the defender. And since he's defending that obstacle, he doesn't have to fall back in an Inconclusive combat... Meaning the French fall back instead and thus are left standing in the field of fire once again.
The French need to get their Cuirassiers close to force the Brits into squares, BUT... Dörnberg's KGL light dragoons are bigger than they are, and thus cover more area, and can thwart the cuirassiers. So it's a tough one for the French, even though they have two more infantry battalions than the Brits do.
For me, the fundamental points are:
The "Half-Dice" rules force an attacker to bunch together very closely if he wants to be able to use his full dice from two units against a single defender. Once bunched together shoulder-to-shoulder: what is the defender's artillery doing? That's a great roundshot target for bouncethrough. What is the defender's cavalry doing? Those attack columns are probably too close to each other to form squares.
And most crucially: what are the other defending units doing? Hopefully wheeling into an enfilade position, because closely-bunched attack columns don't cover very much space, and are probably begging to be outflanked, or at least shot in the flank.
You must log in to post.