Honour Forums

Discuss the Honour system.

1. drsid
   Member

   No, I'm not providing one, so much as needing one. I have experience playing wargaming, but its pretty much limited to fantasy and science fiction gaming. Over the last couple of years, I've collected half a dozen Napoleonic and historic wargaming rule sets, including Shako 2, Black Powder, GdB, and of course, LaSalle.

   Given the high quality of the rule sets, it appears to be a great time for a new players to enter Napoleonic gaming. Even with the new stuff, however, it seems very intimidating.

   After having read LaSalle, it seems to be a relatively easy rule set to get into Napoleonic gaming, though I have also liked Shako 2, and Black Powder. Given the "army creator" in the back of the book, it also seems to have enough of a GW/PP/BF mechanic to get us non-historical gamers into it.

   Anyway, I am looking for some advice and answers to questions.

   1. When playing Napoleonics, do you generally recreate historical scenarios? Or, do players do "what if" scenarios?

   2. There is a great deal of jargon in Napoleonics, from whether a rule set is at the tactical level, the brigade level, etc. etc. Is there some FAQ or Wiki that defines these types of terms?

   3. I've looked at the forums here, the advice found in LaSalle and Shako II, and on the TMP boards regarding basing. Would the following basing idea be viable?

   INFANTRY: 4 figures on a 1 1/2" x 1/2" base.

   CAVALRY: 2 figures on a 1 1/2" by 1" base.

   Artillery: 1 piece w/ 3-4 men on a 1 1/2" by 1 1/2" square base.

   Also, with regard to the infantry base, should I instead use a single 1 1/2" x 1" base with 8 figures or just join the 4 figures together when needed.

   4. With regard to basing, there is discussion of center and flank companies that is damn confusing to a beginner. Is the placement of officers, flankers, and center figures primarily an aesthetic thing or is their location critical to games (LaSalle and otherwise)?

   5. I have ordered figures for the Peninsula theater of war, because I like the idea of having British and French with smatterings of Spanish and Portuguese. With regard to painting figures, my thoughts were to paint them as generically as possible, so I could use the miniatures for other campaigns. For example, for the British, Grey pants, red jackets, white piping and black hats. Do other do anything beyond that? When painting and collecting your forces, do you explicitly collect specific regiments?

   6. Where do people get their bases? Is Litko the primary source in the United States? And, if so, do most use metal bases or wooden ones? And, for 15mm, which thickness is commonly used?

   7. The use of movement trays? And, finally, with regard to basing, has anyone bases their figures 2x2 and then just used movement trays to go to 8 figures? Or, is that not really a viable approach?

   Thanks for your help!

   Posted 1 year ago #

2. Grinner
   Member

   I come from a similar gaming background myself, and have found Lasalle to be a great way to break into Napoleonic war gaming. I've always loved the era and had an interest in historical war gaming but have found the entry costs for most systems to be somewhat prohibitive. With Perry and Victrix putting out their plastic lines it makes getting into this era doable without breaking the bank. So I'm not a grognard myself but I'll put in my two cents.

   1. I've got a half dozen games under my belt with Lasalle and they have all been AB armies facing off against each other using the random generated terrain from the book. From what I've gathered though this is something relatively new to Napoleonic gaming, most existing systems focus on specific battles and generally involve much larger forces. Lasalle allows for smaller, more intensely tactical games.

   2. I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for but try the below website. Has a lot of information about the various factions, units, tactics, and nomenclature of the Napoleonic era.
   http://napoleonistyka.atspace.com/index.html

   3. Bases really depend on the scale of your models. Me and the guys I play with play with 28mm models on 40mm square bases. If you're using 28mm you'll find it hard to fit 2 guys deep on a half inch deep base. If you're in 15mm, not so much. Different sized models work better or worse on different sized bases. A good idea would be to see what sized bases the guys in your area play with and plan accordingly. There's also a guide for basing in the book that's a lot of help.

   4. In Lasalle all of that is aesthetic. There are no command units or grenadier companies or light companies in your brigades. There are simply 4 or 6 bases of infantry (representing your brigades) with skirmish bases in front of them ranging from 0 to 3. If you want your army to look pretty and historically accurate, the British typically had their Grenadier companies on the right flank and their Light company on the left flank when they'd been recalled back to the line, with the battalion colors, i.e. the flags and commanding officer and such, in the middle of the line.

   5. If you're going for a Peninsular British army the pants would be white, or at least that's the color they'd have been when they were issued. If you've got a veteran unit they're likely somewhat bedraggled and not so sparkly white. Grey trousers were worn later at Waterloo. The British also had different shakos (i.e. hats) during the Peninsular and 100 Days campaigns. as for picking specific regiments, I think that's really a British/hardcore grognard thing. There are definitely those that do try and form specific units. A friend of mine with a British Peninsular Light Division is doing his Rifles unit up as the 95th and his Elite Infantry as the 42nd Foot (The Black Watch). That website I listed above also shows the unit colors. These would be use to decorate cuffs and collars and can add another touch of authenticity/uniqueness to your models. For my own Austrian Avante Garde army I'm not planning on aiming for any particular units, though I do plan on making some of my units German Fusileers and others as Hungarian for a bit of flavor (the major difference being the color of their pants, white for Germans and blue for Hungarians).

   6. Everyone I know went with Litko, the prices just can't be beat and the product is well crafted. I went with 3mm unfinished wood for my 28mm models, I don't much care what the wood looks like as I'll be flocking over it anyway. 3mm has the added benefit of being both the cheapest and the most sturdy, though you might want to go with 1.5mm for your 15mm models.

   7. Not entirely sure as to the second part of your question, but the various unit formations make the use of trays somewhat of a hassle, as you'd either have to constantly change trays for the various formations, or use trays that were capable of changing shape, which do not exist to the best of my knowledge. One of our group is working on making adjustable trays to fit the various unit sizes and formations though for just this reason, so if anything comes of that I'll let you know.

   Posted 1 year ago #

3. Alan Charlesworth
   Member

   Grinner has posted an excellent reply to your question, so I won't go through all the specific points.

   With regard to question 1 my personal preference is for historical scenarios or 'table top teasers'.

   The former grouip is self explanatory. Table top teasers are non historicaly based scenarios that set up a realistic military situation but not based on a specific real action. This might be a reargard action, a bridge crossing, escorting a baggage train etc. There are several books and many magazine articles devoted to this type of gaming. Of course you can easily make up your own.

   One of the main differences between the above and AB type battles is that there is no attempt to have balanced and even forces for each side. When playing an historicaly based scenario you are trying to achieve a better outcome than was historicaly achieved although this may still be a loss in real world terms. With a 'teaser' there will normally be victory conditions that each side has to achieve to be deemed to have won.

   These types of game can give much greater variety to your play and a more cinematic feel. AB (a Lassale acronym - Army Builder) type games i.e. fairly fixed and even forces and terrain for both sides are more suited to competition games or where there is no time to prepare a more imaginative setting. AB type games can get a samey and predictable after a while.

   Posted 1 year ago #

4. John de Terre Neuve
   Member

   Nice reply Alan, I definitely prefer the historical or TT Teasers scenarios, I bought the BattleGames magazine reprint of Charles Grant's scenarios, hopefully I will have a chance to go through them soon.

   I believe the Army Builder can be useful though in designing your own scenarios or adjusting historical scenarios solely on the baiss that it gives you some sense of the relative strength of the forces you are planning to use. So if you have one force which is significantly superior to the other, you can try to put some scenario specific conditions which may restore some balance if need be.

   I suspect you are right about the gaminess of pure AB games.

   John

   Posted 1 year ago #

5. Alan Charlesworth
   Member

   Another advantage of historical games and teasers is that they are great for solo gaming as you usualy have different objectives for each side which makes the schizoprenic command duties easier to deal with in an even handed way.

   John I am in Shropshire, UK. Where are you?

   Posted 1 year ago #

6. drsid
   Member

   Thanks for the helpful responses. I supposed I should have mentioned it - I have 15mm scale.

   I like the idea of the "teasers."

   Posted 1 year ago #

7. John de Terre Neuve
   Member

   Thanks Alan, I am running a solo Lasalle game now, I have added a couple solo specific twists to the Lasalle set which I am testing now. I will put up an AAR once completed.

   John

   ps from Newfoundland, but living in exile just outside Boston, MA

   Posted 1 year ago #

8. rpardo
   Member

   Hi
   The original and old Table Top Teasers are on-line
   Table-Top Teasers

   Rafa
   Wargaming with Napoleonic Miniatures
   Project Leipzig
   Alkaid Ediciones

   Posted 1 year ago #

9. drsid
   Member

   A few more newbie questions:

   In the rule book, the basing example given has 8 figures in a 4x2 configuration per base for infantry. Do you people base all 8 figures on one base or separate them into two bases of 4 figures? Given the way the game uses 4 or 6 bases per unit, I would imagine that having 8 figures per base would be the way to go. That would give you a small unit of 32 figures.

   Second, with the French in the Peninsula, it is my understanding that the Caribinier and Chasseur were separate Legere Companies; whereas the Voltiguers and Grenadiers were directly attached to a line battalion. Is that correct?

   Posted 1 year ago #

10. John de Terre Neuve
    Member

    Everyone bases differently and the only important is that the units are comprised of 4 or 6 bases. If you want to use 8 half bases for a 32 figure-4 base unit that is up to you.

    I believe it is always best to pick what looks best to you, the only proviso being that if you are to play with others, you need a similar base size.

    Ligne (line) battalions were made up of 4 fusiliers (centre) and 1 voltiquer and 1 grenadier (elite) companies.
    Legere (light) battalions were made up of 4 chasseur (centre) and 1 voltiguer and 1 caribinier (elite) companies.

    John

    Posted 1 year ago #

11. Crottin de Chavignol
    Member

    For what it's worth, I make my own magnetic bases. I use stick-on magnetic material and approx 1.5mm plastic (styrene) card.

    A sheet of Evergreen card does 35 30mm x 40mm bases and the offcuts are perfect for skirmish bases.

    The trick is to stick the magnet sheet to the plastic card and then cut it up. If you cut through from the magnet size you cut the magnet and score the plastic in one action, and the magnet holds a steel rule in place very nicely while you're cutting. Then you snap the plastic.

    For painting the french, in 15mm, I've found the Games Workshop Mordian Blue foundation paint with their blue wash fast and effective.

    I'm not sure how well that would translate to 28mm, but my reasoning is after marching through the first rain, any non-colourfast dye is going to be rather variable.

    Posted 1 year ago #

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