Just checking ... once a unit has deployed in a BUA it fights with its full 8 dice when assaulted (with cover bonus)but fires out of any face with 2 dice (for standard units of course).
Cheers
Rich
Fighting in buildings ...
(14 posts) (5 voices)-
Posted 2 years ago #
-
Correct.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Thanks like always ...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Sam
Yesterday we had a game with a lot of fighting in buildings, and got into a bit of a mess; can you please clarify some points.
COVER & BAD TERRAIN
Clearly if the defenders are deployed they get the +2 dice for cover; but do the attackers (or the defenders) take the -2 dice bad terrain modifier?
We assumed not, but this just made it too easy to attack the corners of the town, the attacker can contact with 3 columns (one each side and one on the corner, which (assuming similar troops) give 24 dice against 10, which is usually a break.
For an isolated building or salient 5 columns can thrown in, giving 40 dice against 10 - wipe-out!
Are we doing something wrong?
(The conclusion was it would be better to make cover -2 on each of the attackers rather than +2 on the defenders, but that is a major change!)
FALLBACK
Can a fallback from one sector end in an adjacent, unoccupied sector, Page 39 is not clear?
Thanks
Steve
Posted 2 years ago # -
Correct, there is no "Bad Terrain" modifier for the Deployed(Town) formation.
[Are we doing something wrong?]
Was there really a totally isolated town base with one lone unit, simultaneously hit by 5 attack columns? (I assume they were coming at it from all directions?) Was this the Pratzen Heights scenario, with the Russian Garde Jägers exposed like that?
I've never seen it quite so lopsided, but yes, if it is that lopsided then it would result in the overrun that you're describing.
[Can a fallback from one sector end in an adjacent, unoccupied sector, Page 39 is not clear?]
Do you mean that you attacked from one town base into another and fell back? If so, then No, you return to the town base where you started. (See page 70, last paragraph in the right column.)
Or are you saying that the attacker was in the clear, and a Fall-Back would result in him ending in a previously-unoccupied town base? If that's the case, then it's covered on page 70, in the section "Fall Back Through a Town Base."
Posted 2 years ago # -
Sam
DEFENDING SECTORS
We had the situation with 3 units hitting an exposed corner (one column hitting square on each of the two faces plus one at 45 deg hitting the sector corner, so the 24 vs 10 match up, which resulted in the defenders breaking. (Adjacent was a town sector which projected offering the possibility of hitting 3 sides, we worked out that it could be hit by perhaps 5 units so abandoned it!)
As I see it there is no possibility of holding isolated strong points such as La Haie Sainte or Hougoumont as the corners are too vulnerable?
FALL BACK
If a unit is stood in the open, with an empty sector behind it, when it falls back can it stand in that sector?
Thanks
Steve
Posted 2 years ago # -
[As I see it there is no possibility of holding isolated strong points such as La Haie Sainte or Hougoumont as the corners are too vulnerable?]
I'm not sure how isolated they really were. There was no way the French could have hit either from behind or even really from the flanks, because of the proximity of the main British lines. A truly isolated outpost like the one you're describing, though, is probably doomed.
Hougomont might require a special "very hard cover" scenario rule, although the limited access to an attacker, who is also using the Bad Terrain penalty for the orchard, is probably sufficient. Consider the math:
A Large Elite or Guard unit in cover would get anywhere from 12-16 dice. The attackers might get two regular line units against them, at least one of which has the Bad Terrain penalty, and at least one has a -1 DISR from defensive fire. So that's about 13-15 dice.
Barring some extraordinary attacker's luck, the outcome is probably inconclusive, meaning the defender, even if he "loses," doesn't have to fall back.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Sam
What about the fall back?
Steve
Posted 2 years ago # -
[If a unit is stood in the open, with an empty sector behind it, when it falls back can it stand in that sector?]
Sorry - I'm not sure I understand the question:
"Is stood in the open" means...?
"An empty sector" means... (an unoccupied town base?)
"Stand in that sector" means...?
I *think* you're asking me: "If a unit in the open has to Fall Back, and an unoccupied town base is directly behind it, may it end its fall back move in that town base?"
If that's what you're asking, then the answer is "No," as per page 70: you keep falling back through the town.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Sam
(Sorry, I used the term 'sector' as I usually play Shako.)
We had a large town, 3 bases deep, does that mean the unit falls back through all 3 bases?
Steve
Posted 2 years ago # -
[We had a large town, 3 bases deep, does that mean the unit falls back through all 3 bases?]
Yes, they can't form up in the streets. As per page 70: they don't end their fall back move in a town base.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Sam
Thanks
Steve
Posted 2 years ago # -
Can a unit deployed in a town fall back as a reaction? It is not in the list of prohibited fallbacks reactions.
How far would they fall back (normal 1-2BW or through and out of the town)? In what direction do they fall back (can they choose any edge or any angle)? What formation will they be in after the fallback?
Towns are tricky in games. You want them to be useful enough on defense that players will occupy them (since they do routinely seem to have been used as part of defensive lines) but not so strong they can't be taken (since they were contested and sometimes fell multiple times in a battle).
As far as I can see, a town will provide the best defensive position in Lasalle (since a unit in a town can't be flanked). But they can still be taken by force.
In the example above, 3 units attacking 1 in a town have about a 70% chance of destroying it. This is not unreasonable, given it would take a bit of effort to ensure all 3 units hit in such a way that they all fight with full dice. If just one of these units can't hit with more than half its bases (so fight with half dice), it is a 20:10 dice fight (about 55% chance). Add in 2 DISRs on the attackers and it would be a 50:50 fight.
Cam
Posted 2 years ago # -
Going back to the question concerning the attack. Isn't it making the town squares a little vulnerable to allow a column to attack right on the apex of a town corner? An attacker who might get 4:1 odds hardly needs this sort of free hike to his chances.
Just a thought, but how about making attacks from outside towns subject to the same rule as those within in the town to ease the problem a little? In short no diagonal attacks.
Pickton
Posted 2 years ago #
Reply
You must log in to post.