Honour Forums

Discuss the Honour system.

1. Spearsup
   Member

   Hi all, and sorry for my english ...

   I received Lassale a couple of days ago and wanted to try a list of French 1813 ... So I take Infantry Division and I want to take Veteran Infantry Brigade as Organic Brigade but it seem to be impossible. Curious because if main infantry was conscript, several big units should be rated at least as Vétéran. For instance Marines Infantry Régiments (10.000 mens in 4 Regt) are ussually rated as Vétéran or Elite by other Rules ... Also it seems impossible to have French Young Guard Brigade as reinforcement, I am right ?

   Other Question ... If I take French Heavy Cavalry Brigade, it will arrived as reinforcement but if I take Saxon Heavy Cavalery Brigade, it is treated as an allied brigade and it is présent at the beginning of the game, is that true ?

   Thancks for your answers !!!

   Cheers

   Sp(S)

   Posted 2 years ago #

2. Ashur_dan
   Member

   Hi

   You are correct, in 1813 the only infantry support options for an Infantry Division is a Conscript Infantry Brigade (organic) or one of the Allied Infantry Brigades (effectively organic). Note that if you do take a conscript infantry support choice you will end up with three Vet batts, one in you core and two in the support option.

   If you want guard you need to take guard from the beginning.

   In relation to the reinforeement issue Sam is aware of this and has suggested that tourney organisers use:

   "All allied brigades may start the game on-board, as per the
   normal rules, with the following exceptions/clarifications:
   - The Saxon cavalry brigade (1806) may start on-board as a
   Prussian ally. The Saxon cavalry brigade in the Empire and
   Liberation theatres is a French ally; it is a Reserve choice
   for a French infantry division; but may start on-board with
   a French guard division.
   - The Polish and Westphalian cavalry brigades are Reserve
   choice for a French infantry division; but may start onboard
   with a French guard division."

   So in friendly games I'd just agree beforehand or use the above.

   I hope this helps.

   regards

   Stephen

   Posted 2 years ago #

3. Spearsup
   Member

   Hi,

   Thancks for your repky.

   In fact in 1813 Conscript Brigades, you have no véterans bataillons, its for "généric conscript brigades" ... So impossible to have Marines Infantry Bataillons which formed about an half of VI eme Corps under Marmont ! I thinck that's a big problem because the interest of 1813/1814 French lists is to mix some poor units with somes Elite or Véterans ones ...

   For "Hundred Days" List, I was also suprise to see that you can take Vétéran Infantry or Elite Infantry Brigades ... At this time, except for Impérial Guards, Infantry Brigades had more or less the same "morale" ... The only line units différent was a Swiss Régiment ...

   Young guard in 1815 : 8 bataillons in 1 divisions(2 brigades) in 1815. If you choose a list of Guard in 1815 with a organic brigades of guard, then you have at least 9 young guards bataillons (!!!)

   I also find somes curious thincks like "brigades of Lancers", French army had very few (5eme Division de Cavalerie Légère à Waterloo) ... usually Light Cav was formed with mixed régiments of Chasseurss / Hussards / Chevaux Légers Lanciers ...

   My conclusion is that if the rules look really fantastic, the army list is not of the same quality !!!

   Posted 2 years ago #

4. cam_millar
   Member

   I am sure Sam will answer in full, but my understanding is that the lists provide reasonable, play balanced, armies for pick up games. Players who want to develop specific historical forces or make changes can go ahead as they want.

   But if they want to use their army in a competition they would need to get the organisers approval - who I presume would demand them to show they are play balanced.

   For instance. If you wanted to design a 1815 list mixing lancers, chasseurs and hussars in a organic brigade to be play balanced against other pick up lists, you need to bear in mind that lancers are effectively chasseurs with a lance. Dropping a chasseur unit and replacing it with a lancer unit makes the brigade a bit better than it was. You need to find a way to end up with a brigade that does not get better.

   With the Liberation list, you do have a model of how to bring in better quality infantry to the French list: add a brigade of Danes(3 Rel/Exp/SK1 + 1 Val/Exp/SK2 + 1 foot battery) or Wurttemberg (3 Rel/Exp/SK1 + 1 Rel/Exp/SK2 + 1 foot battery). If you used these with French figures you get pretty close to what you want, but admittedly you can't mix the consripts and better quality infantry in the same brigade. (Aside, who would choose to use this Wurttenberg ally in a comp when the Danes are better?)

   I would certainly encourage you to produce some lists you think better reflect the armies you want to use and post them here. I suspect Sam would love to see more army lists. You would get feedback from players about whether it provides a balanced army list. Sam may even upgrade it to an official army list.

   Cam

   Posted 2 years ago #

5. Spearsup
   Member

   Thancks 4 your answer !

   Posted 2 years ago #

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