Hi Lads ...as a matter of interest what Napoleonic rules did you all used to play before Lasalle? ....I used to play WRG and a few Home Brews....I have played Black Powder but a little bit too generic for my tastes (better for ACW).
cheers Paul
Life before Lasalle?
(30 posts) (22 voices)-
Posted 1 year ago #
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I am quite new to wargaming, but did have a go with Le Feu Sacre (lots of great concepts..blinds, card driven..but found basing odd and movement clunky) and Field of Battle (card driven exciting game, mechanics nice...but maybe a little generic). I have also had one go at RtoE, but had a lot of trouble figuring out how the mechanisms work (probably as a result of my newness to wargaming)
Lasalle works very well for me, the book itself shines in it's simplicity and the mechanisms and movements are quite elegant. My only complaint and this is because I mostly play solo is that it is ugo-igo, I would prefer a more random activation (card driven etc).
John
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hi John ...Checkout Command and Colors Napoleonics....the card movements could come in very handy for your solo games..cheers Paul
Posted 1 year ago # -
Actually Lasalle is my first Napoleonic game. I may have played briefly in asingle game of Grande Armee, and have a battered copy of Napoleon's Battles 1st ed that was more fiddly bits than I really ever wanted to deal with.
Lasalle is the perfect "Napoleonic Wargaming for Dummies" set of rules. Tactical, sensible basing, rules written in plain language, you don't need to already be an expert in Napoleonic warfare to read the game.
I have and greatly enjoy Field of Battle, but was never inspired by it enough to take up Napoleonics. I use it more as a solo play engine for other periods that I am already established in.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hi
We mainly use the Piquet rules for Napoleonic with the odd game of Fields of Battle. We have adapted the Ancient version of Command and Colours and I know our group has 2 copies of the Napoleonic version on order so I expect an tabletop outing for these erules in the near future.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hi
I use Lasalle and Napoleon's Battles, the first for small battles and the second for larger ones.Rafa
Wargaming with Napoleonic Miniatures
Project Leipzig
Alkaid EdicionesPosted 1 year ago # -
Mostly Grand Armee and Nap Principles of War, but also Nap's Battles, To The Sound of the Guns, WRG Naps and a whole host of others I'm forgetting.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Before Lasalle the time last I played Napoleonic games was 1992. Then it was Empire III. Before that WRG 1685 - 1845 and before that in the dim mists of time WRG 1750 - 1850.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Shako
Posted 1 year ago # -
Well Lads....it looks like Lasalle seems to have got us back on track, I'm a bit like Alan Charlesworth, I used to play Naps way back (I forgot about Sound of the Guns)....not one really consistent set of Naps rules until Lasalle, I know people play other sets but for my money Lasalle has certainly got me back into Napoleonics.........well done Sam
Cheers Paul
Posted 1 year ago # -
Napoleonics was always my main interest - but LaSalle sparked my gaming in the period after a false start with Shako2
East Midlands/South Yorkshire seems a hotbed of activity for this in the UK, which is nice
I bought a French army years ago [sadly long gone] at a Bring and Buy and Sound of the Guns but never really did anything with it
Posted 1 year ago # -
We played a lot of Grande Armee. Before that I had a break as I wasn't enjoying Napoleonics once POW added the assault columns rules in the second edition.
Before that it was Valmy to Waterloo which was too much like work (17 page quick reference!) and Napoleons battles.
Very much looking forward to Blucher as our Grande Armee play has dropped off.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hi
First played WRG 1685 to 1840 somwthing, then Elan, and Delux Elan, then a few others. I like Age Of Eagles and LFS, (though I understand LFS is up to Version 3 now, which I've not tried).
I really enjoy Sharp Practice.
FPGA also is a favourite of mine.
LASALLE is my perfered Naps rules though.
Cheers
http://trailape.blogspot.com/Posted 1 year ago # -
Started ouy w/Empire back in early 90's, then our group got into Battles for Empire, it was like Empire Light! Definitly enjoyed the complexity and all the cool things you wanted out of a Napoleonic game. Then I moved (in the military), and didn't find any group for a few years. About 12 years have passed w/o playing Naps, and pick-up LaSalle. I really like the ease of play and still some the Napoleonic things I like!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Paul and Alan should probably remember playing each other in the mid 70's. Along with myself I believe we all played at the Sheffield Wargames Society. Another mad link to the past.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hi Trev...I thought his name rang a bell! ....thats why I pm'd you with the merry xmas wishes as well .....I never got a reply you bounder!
see you soon Paul
Posted 1 year ago # -
Several thousand years ago I played with Fire & Steel and, more often than not, the System 7 cardboard "figures". A series of articles in the Courier by George Jeffreys really got me side-tracked as he introduced the idea of transforming the Napoleonic game into a Napoleonic simulation. The net result of reading these articles (and many others in EE&L and Wargames Illustrated) was a complete dissatisfaction with any Napoleonic "game" as it were!
It was many years in the wilderness until I came across Grande Armee. While not a simulation (Sam never presented it as such) it had the grand tactical level of play that I was interested in. Plus I could really sense Sam's enthusiasm for the period. I only managed a couple of games but I though they were great!
The release of Lasalle coincided with meeting some very talented and enthusiastic Ancients gamers here in Calgary who I managed to convince that shakos were as much fun to paint as viking helmets! The results were way beyond my expectations and since then we've managed to have a bunch of really great games - with actual painted figures not cardboard!
So there was life before Lasalle - it just wasn't particularly fun!
Regards, Mark
Posted 1 year ago # -
Shortly after Grande Armee came out, I started collecting Napoleonics in 6mm. It was nothing but a fight with the other locals who played the period. 6mm?! Grande Armee?!! They had been playing 15mm and playing some rules set where nothing happened after hours and hours of play.
So i figured I'd not bother, sold my 6mm and started playing Warmachine and WW2 skirmish games.
It was only in the last few weeks that I cleared a spot on my painting que and bought Lasalle. My local game store has started stocking 1/72 plastics. I've also been a driving force in getting my friends into miniature gaming and now have lots of people who will play whatever game I put in front of them. So everything is coming together.
Posted 1 year ago # -
it is one of the huge challenges in the hobby and probably napoleonics in particular to get people to change rules or scales. Scales I understand as that is big economic/time/painting shift. Rules that increasingly say, you can play with how your figures are currently based are increasing. But the number of people who say I am not going to learn a new set of rules is daunting. Its one of the things that I will now likley buy every rule published by Sam, not that I will play, but he shows thought and invention in trying to design. I didn't care for the blocks in GA, but i totally respected the objective and simulation level that he was striving for.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I've always been a fan of the period, I've read the Sharpe series (yes I know they are decidedly anglophilic, but still a good sense of flavor of the era) and read much of Forester. I've also plowed through a lot of non-fiction, collections of letters, diaries, and historical accounts, and taken several classes at university focused on the Napoleonic Era. But until Lasalle came along I'd never actually played a game of Napoleonics, mostly because many of the rule sets I had seen at conventions and the like were usually incredibly esoteric or involved tables and maths of a Sisyphean nature.
This is not to say that I am new to miniature gaming. I've been playing a little game called Battletech for years, because what's not to love about massive robotic war machines? Several of my friends have been heavily involved in Warhammer Fantasy, but I was never very attracted to it aside from borrowing one of their armies from time to time because I found the again very esoteric rules to be too much of a hassle.
I think what really attracted me to Lasalle was its elegant simplicity. There is a core set of rules and concepts that are readily approachable, and while there is some variation between units, these variations are sensible, easily defined, and readily explained. Anyone who has ever played a game of Warhammer knows that there are far far too many little caveats and special abilities and gear and such that can drastically alter combat and unit interactions. I prefer the simpler system of Lasalle because victory is won on the table, not in the force selection.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Scales I understand as that is big economic/time/painting shift. Rules that increasingly say, you can play with how your figures are currently based are increasing.
That's certainly true. In my case I was supplying miniatures for both sides and none of the existing local Nap players would even consider trying the game-- and they felt they had to go out of the way to tell me I was doing the hobby wrong.
I really have no idea what the demographics are of Napoleonic players. I've only ever seen age 50+ people playing Napoleonics at conventions or club days. I'm in my early 30s and find that getting younger people (myself included) to play any period is so easy. I show up with painted miniatures one day and talk about them a bit and by the end of the club night, I have someone ask me to put them on the table with them next time (or even have a quick demo game on the spot if it's suitable given the rules).
This has worked with Warmachine, Classic Battletech and WW2 Skirmish games. And the rate at which people buy miniatures themselves and get in on it is surprisingly high. I think it's a social thing. I've come to the conclusion that the best way forward is not to try to wrangle existing Napoleonic players into trying new rules, but to make new players.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Nathan
I had a similar experience. All the Napoleonic players at my club used Principles of War for 28mm or Age of Eagles for 15mm. They were very defensive about their own rules and had a closed mind to trying new ones. The few I did get to play Lasalle just wanted to ridicule them from the outset without having read them or given them a fair trial. However, the non Napoleonic players were much more interested in trying them and every reaction was a favourable one. They were impressed with how easy they were to understand and how quickly they played and were keen to play further games.
I didn't find it to be so much an age thing, i'm not so young myself, just that the Napoleonic players had been doing the same thing for years and weren't very interested in trying anything new.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Alan, I'd certainly agree neither of us are that young nowadays. For me coming back to Napoleonics after what must be a 15-20 year break was atually started by Black Powder and the plethora of 28mm plastics that hit the market just over a year ago. I see it as I now have a choice of 2 good rule sets, and have also added a not inconsiderable 15mm Russian army to my collection since Christmas. Lasalle has advantages over BP that I still firmly believe that Lasalle is far better for compettition games. Both games played proerly give very similar results innappearance and feel. Before this resurgence back to Napoleonics, which hsa always been one of my favourite periods I used to play Sound of the Guns and WRG. Both had there strong points, but dont really fit into the current wargaming world we are in now. I've also and still play many other periods, from Ancients, through Renaissance to WW2. Its amazing how many of the newer style rulesets have similar mechanisms in them.
Trev
Posted 1 year ago # -
Trev
I like Black Powder very much as they take the approach that I personally like to wargaming. They are if anything anti-competitve, emphasising the fun and social aspect of wargaming, not winning. They also encourage players to take the ideas they like and modify and add to them as they see fit.
Although I don't see them replacing Lasalle for my Napoleonic gaming I am using them for other periods.
Posted 1 year ago # -
FWIW I was planning to play (and had been building my new 28mm armies for) Shako II the last 2 years, prior to that had a short period doing modified POW Nappies (in 28mm) 10 years ago (so haven't played for 8+ years), and prior to that short dabbles with both Shako I and Napoleon's Battles (both in 15mm) in mid-90's. My first significant Napoleonic set was Ebb & Flow used back in the early 1990's for 2-3 years (it was a 6mm Corps/Army level game with Battalions as the manoeuvre elements and no dice used - for those not familiar with it).
Posted 1 year ago # -
I have just bought Lasalle in the search of a suitable set of rules to aim for, starting with the new Hat 28mm Bavarians! Currently I play 15mm Napoleons Battles and generally the larger Battles such as Boridino, Dresden, Waterloo, Aspern-Essling etc. I play FPW in 28mm and fancy, not a change, but a bit of variety some nice 28mm figures in large Battalions. My intent is to build up a Bavarian Army, possibly waiting for some Hat Cavalry or maybe Foundry if they have an offer. It will not replace my Napoleons Battles with the thousands of 15mm figs in my collection,iot is just the thought of Cornflower Blue by the dozen!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Last time i got into Nappy's. Was the late 80's when i was a freshman in high school. We used Empire II and Gaurd du corps. Everyone in our area did not like Empire III. We did Bordino using Empire II. We played over 2 days with about 20 players.:-)
Posted 1 year ago # -
Mostly Grande Armee and Napoleon's Battles. I really like GA, which has been my favorite until now. NB is pretty good, but I generally do like most of the games I try (Shako 2, Carnage and Glory, Valmy to Waterloo - Ok maybe not VTW so much, too complicated, Piquet Field of Battle and several others.I have been reading Black Powder too, but haven't played it. I think Lasalle pretty much has it down, elegance, feel, well written rules with explanations. Sam really sets the mark with writing rules.
My oldest (14 yrs old)son and I have been playing Lasalle lately. We have a really slow battle of Essling going that we get to play about an hour a week due to our busy schedules. We both really like the mechanisms. We have struggled a little with town fighting, particularly the Granery at Essling. We have decided to use 6s as the only way damage can be done as historically it was practically impregnable. I am not sure how Sam would handle it.
HughPosted 1 year ago # -
Hi Hugh ....thats the beauty of Lasalle a streamlined system.....just use a few house rules to cover any sort of historical precedent that is needed .cheers Paul
ps this thread seems to be growing with new members....thats a good sign:)
Posted 1 year ago # -
I started my miniature wargaming involvement with painting Heritage Napleonettes for Napoleon's Battles; when I moved to San Diego, I tried a little Empire IV with a local group, but ended up converting them to NB. We played those rules for many years, including at least half the available scenarios. It never seemed odd to me at the time that brigades were behaving like battlaions.
I've also played Shako I(one game, too bland), Volley and Bayonet (again, one game, too bland) played in a 1 on 1 moderated game of Valmy to Waterloo-too poorly written for me to figure it out by reading them. We even trotted out FPGA for one game before moving on to something else. I think we even played one game of Phil Barker's Horse, Foot, and Gun: IMHO, concepts that work great for an Ancient/Medieval wargame lead to a pretty bland game for the Napoleonic period.
Lasalle looks like a keeper to our group, not least because of the expectation for Blucher to use the same basing scheme to play a different level of game. And the basing looks great, too! Also, we like that you can finish a game with one attachment per side in about 3 hours instead of the 5, 6, 8 hour games of Eylau we used to play with NB. Our Borodino game with said rules was an all-day affair that must have taken about 10 hours of play time, not to mention the 1.5-2 hours it took to set up!
Posted 1 year ago #
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