So who's going and what are you taking?
James/Russian Grenadier Division (Empire) with Light Cavalry Reserve (or Dragoons)
Marengo this wkd - Runners & Riders
(22 posts) (10 voices)-
Posted 1 year ago #
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JP - Austrian Avant Garde (Empire) with Infantry Brigade or Cuirassier Brigade.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Russian grenadiers
Posted 1 year ago # -
Saxons support choices yet to be finalised, so far Organic cavalry or Austrian Infantry but trying to get Polish infantry finished.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Nigel - Austrian Advant Garde with Infantry or Hussar Brigades.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Thanks fellas.
ABW there's a couple of French players coming. Napoleonics without French is like Yorkshire Pudding without gravy :)
Next time i'll have my Bavarians
Posted 1 year ago # -
And as if by magic ...
Fingers crossed we have Steve and Ady coming both with French
Posted 1 year ago # -
1st. Steve - French Empire
2nd. JP - Avante Guarde
3rd. Roger - Bavarians
4th. Me - Russian Grenadiers Empire
5th. Nigel - Avante Guarde
6th. Alan - Russian Grenadiers
7th. Trev - Russian Grenadiers
8th. Andrew - SaxonsCongrats to the top three chaps, thanks to Trev for organising and kudos to all for coming along and gaming in the right spirit.
Andrew, collected the best prize, quite right too, for best Sports. [applause]
I drew all my games with Nigel, Stephen and Andrew. They were fun games though and well fought.
I will have to add No.1 Russian Player in the UK to my signature now [grin]
Posted 1 year ago # -
Congrats Guys - sounds like you had a good little Tourney there with a good group of chaps with the right attitude!
Posted 1 year ago # -
Can you say what support choices were used and remind us of any special rules you used - obviously of interest for tournies down here.
Cam
Posted 1 year ago # -
Well done Stephen:)....its good to see the one French army at the top of the table,its made mi night:)
viva le Emperor.
well done Trev....respect for organizing the tourney.
Paul:)
Posted 1 year ago # -
All Optional rules were adopted (save for Engineers) plus Errata.
Defender Won a Marginal Victory if the matter ended as per the Rules. However if the matter timed out, after 2.30 hrs, then it was a Draw [i'll copy/paste Trev's original post below for ease]
People could change their Support Options between games but the most common, from what i saw were:
Russians - Light Cavalry, Grenadier Brigade*, Reserve Artillery** [gulp!]
Avante-Garde - Hussar, Cuirass and Infantry
French - Dragoons
Bavarians - Organic Light Cavalry
Saxons - Organic Cavalry (Andrew's army is lovely, however, he couldn't get his Polish Infantry painted in time)* i borrowed an extra four Battalions and then forgot to use them. It could have been interesting when defending with 10 Grenadier Battalions and 15 guns on the table from the beginning
** I'll let Alan say whether it was an effective choice or not. It scared the hell out of me though when i was on the table next to him a couple of times!
I had pushed in the beginning for amendments, however the majority view was that we should play it pretty much vanilla for the first UK tourney. I have to admit, i think they were right. Probably the only house rule (for me) would be doing something about cavalry/infantry melee in terrain - but i don't think it ever really came up as an issue. I've even changed my mind about Non-Organic Reserves [being on the table from the beginning as it would discriminate against the Saxon and Bavarian players - points well made gentlemen]although it did make it difficult when i played A-G and Saxons to force a result when i was Attacking and my opponents had Core/Organic Cavalry (more time would have been the key i think). I don't think Nobility points work though unless they're used in a club game with wild abandon and no-one counting score
Player seemed happy to attack. I chose to attack twice.
My best and hardest fought game was against the tourney winner Stephen when it was pretty much an infantry slog with neither army's cavalry coming on until late in the game
2.5 hours is a little challenging to get to a satisfactory resolution. Ideally, you'd have four games over a wkd, each of 3 or 3.5 hrs. We did get a number of wins under the rules and not just Defender default. I had Stephen testing for his Army Break in our game on turn 16!! [he rolled 18 - so close, i could have been a contender - ha ha]
Personally what i'd like to see next time out, myself included, is more average type armies with the Russian Grenadiers and Avante-Garde taking a back seat to Russian and Austrian Infantry Divisions. More for variety than anything else as the proof is in the pudding and no single army type dominating
Long and short of it LaSalle stood up very well IMHO as a tourney style game. Everyone played to the rules but no-one cared too much about playing them to the Nth degree, had a refreshing non-tourney approach to actually winning.
Best Sports got first pick of the two prizes to huge applause which summed up a very enjoyable day
PS we even had a 9th Prussian player but sadly the 10th (French) had to work so quite wisely he legged it to the pub and the sunshine [grin]
Posted 1 year ago # -
[Trev's original post]“Marengo”
A Lasalle Tournament
This is a tournament for Lasalle players to get together in the UK, play people that they don’t normally get to play, and extend the tournament circuit to cover Napoleonic wargames. There will be a large emphasis on gentlemanly play and sportsmanship, to deter the win at all costs player, after all what we all want is enjoyable gaming.
The date and venue of the event is:
Saturday April 23rd 2011
The Eye of the Storm.
Maelstrom Games.
Matlock Mill,
Hamilton Way,
Mansfield
NG18 5BUArmies: are to be fully painted, 15mm, to a 40mm BW, and to the Armybuilder 1+1 option. Armies taken from the Honour website are eligible. The nationality and theatre of the army must be advised to the tournament organiser at least three weeks prior to the event. Players may change the +1 option between games when they have learnt their next opponents nationality and theatre. Obviously they will need additional models to do this.
Terrain and Scenario: All terrains will be pre-set (different on each table), and the following scenario will be used.
When players arrive at their designated table, they both state which nationality and theatre their army is from. At this stage they then secretly nominate their optional brigade (best written on a scrap of paper). Next the players choose the roles, i.e. Attacker and Defender as indicated on P.87 of the rulebook. Sub commanders should be diced for at this stage. The rules for weather and customising the board will not be used. Indeed any rule allowing a player to modify the terrain will not be used. The set up zones, objective and reinforcement rules on pages 90-91 will be used. The game will be 16 turns basic, with extra turns as indicated within the Lasalle rulebook. However in this tournament, a 2 ½ hour limit will also be imposed and if this is reached first then the game shall finish then. After 2 hours and 15 minutes players should only start a new turn if this will give an even number of turns to the game (i.e. each player has played the same number of turns). If the game finishes on time it will be counted as “Timed Out”.
The result of the game will be as indicated on pages 66-67. As there is not enough incentive within the rules to encourage the attacker to actually attack, there is a twist on the results:
1. If the game times out then it will be counted as a draw.
2. If the game ends as per the rulebook (i.e. after all turns have been completed with neither player having lost), then the defender will be the winner.
This is intended to force the attacker to attack, as he can only draw or lose otherwise. There is also a reason for the defender to push the game on as he will win or draw (at the least) if he is not beaten.
All rules in the Lasalle rulebook, and from the Honour website, including the latest errata (28/5/10), and optional rules (27/5/10) will be used. The only rule not in effect will be the Engineering rules on pages 77-78. Nobility points will be used. Please check in the rules to see how the affect the final game score.
Command ratings of Sub-Commanders: are to be diced for before deployment of each game. This is a variable within the tournament that keeps all the protagonists playing games of toy soldiers, and therefore the tournament’s importance is secondary to all the players having “Good, Fun” games.Tournament Points:
Decisive Victory 5 points
Marginal Victory 4 points
Draw 3 points
Marginal Loss 2 points
Total Defeat 1 pointRound 1 of the event will be drawn on the morning of the event, in order that the suspense can be kept as long as possible. After that the Swiss system will be used which will mean that players with the same or similar scores will be matched against each other in subsequent rounds. Whatever the scores players will not play the same opponent more than once in the event.
At the end of the three games all players will be asked to place their opponents in order of enjoyability of games. This is to ensure that players do not take the games too seriously. Your favourite opponent will receive 3 points, your least favourite opponent 1 point and obviously the other will get 2 points. These points are not put into the overall event scores, but there will be a prize for the “Best Opponent” at the end of the event. You can judge this however you want, i.e. sportsmanship, enjoyability, army selection, etc.
There will only be 12 spaces available for this event, so an early entry is essential. The entry fee is £12 which includes coffee on arrival, as well as a buffet lunch, and also goes towards some prizes.Prizes will be for the Winner (Best General), Best Opponent, and there may be a couple more (dependant upon number of entries). The Tournament Organiser reserves the right to change any details within this pack, but as this hasn’t happened before, don’t expect to see me start now.
Entries should be sent to the Tournament Organiser, Trevor Allen, 54, Bracken Road, Shirebrook, Notts, NG20 8FB, along with a cheque for the entry fee of £12, made payable to T. Allen. Entries will be taken on a first come, first served basis.
Saturday 23rd April 2011
9.00 – 9.30 Check in
9.30 – 12.00 Game 1
12.00 – 1.00 Lunch
1.00 – 3.30 Game 2
3.45 – 6.15 Game 3
6.30 Presentations and safe journeys home.Posted 1 year ago # -
James (Borodino) has done an excellent job of summarising the Tourney.
I had a great time and from what I saw so did all the other players. I had only ever met one of the other players before the day although I had had contact with several others through the forum and e-mail. It was a really nice to meet everyone face to face There was good sportsmanship throughout and a there was lots of camaraderie and typical wargamers banter during the day.
The venue, Maelstrom Games, was ideal for the event. We had the place pretty much to ourselves for the whole day and the staff were very helpful and accommodating.
Trevor had sourced a couple of lovely prizes for the winning categories. One was a beautiful oval shaped miniature painting of Napoleon and the second was a brass bell with the handle being a bust of Napoleon. It was made clear from the outset that the most important prize was for the sportsmanship/most enjoyable opponent category and that the winning of the competition was just for bragging rights and that that was secondary in importance. The winner in the first category had choice of prizes. Andrew and Steve were very deserving winners, both thoroughly nice chaps and played in the right spirit.
With respect to the rules I think there were far fewer issues than expected. Part of this was due to the fact that on the terrain side Trevor had come up with table layouts that would avoid most of the problem areas. So for instance there were no fields (rough) and woods were minimal. However, in general discussion the universal view was that the terrain rules were a problem for Lasalle in general and it would be nice to have some minor amendments that would tidy this area up.
I didn’t see any of the interleaving of infantry and cavalry (to get combined arms attacks) that has been previously mentioned on this forum. Maybe this was discouraged by the use of the ‘I’m with Stupid’ rule?
Not sure if the results shift on a draw (in a game that finished) was necessary. There seemed to be no lack of aggression on the day and I am not sure if the incentive to attack was really required. Would be interested to see other participants comments on this. As most games didn’t finish anyway it only affected a minority of games.
I could have fielded any French/Austrian/Russian army combination. I had originally planned to use Austrian Avant Guard but I guessed that there would be several of those making an appearance anyway. So I went with one of the more whacky options for a bit of fun and chose Russian Grenadiers with Reserve Artillery. A staggering 25 guns in 5 batteries, 3 of which are position batteries with a longer range for roundshot and canister!
The sight of this grand battery certainly struck terror into the hearts of all who saw it. However, players quickly worked out that obstructing terrain was their friend and that due to the straight ahead fire zone it was usually possible to get a lot of units out of arc.
I had only had 4 previous games with this army before the tourney and I don’t think I made the best use of it. However, this army certainly showed up the problems with the rules regarding the ease with which artillery can move around and redeploy and also evade cavalry who might be chasing them. In two of the three tourney games I ended up with position batteries deployed in the enemies rear. In one game both my opponent and I ended up with artillery in each others rears. I am sure Senarmont would have been proud but it was a bit silly. I think all my opponents though the rules were weak with respect to the extreme mobility of the artillery and i agree.
Intuitively you would think that this army was better in defense than attack. However, both my practice games and those in the tourney seemed to indicate that it has a greater edge in attack. This is mainly due to the fact that if the artillery is static it is easier to avoid.
I was very pleased to see that there were French, Bavarians and Saxons used - all non gimmick armies and that one of these won and another came third. It would have been a shame if all the uber armies (Russian Grenadiers and Austrian Avant Guard)had swept the board. It would be nice if any future event could in some way encourage more of these typical/vanilla army choices. Perhaps the outcome itself will make some pause for thought.
I think the game length was a problem as it seemed that most games ended as draws due to time running out before the games finished. In my three games I had two draws and one loss. The number of turns played is instructive:
1st game - 19 turns in 1h 45m - Result was a draw by standard Lasalle rules but a loss for the tourney as I was the attacker. This may have been the fastest game of the day at the tourney.
2nd game - 14 turns and time ran out.
3rd game - 8 turns and time ran out.
I think part of the slackening of the pace was just due to increasing player fatigue so may be to be expected.
I would definitely prefer to see two (rather than 3) longer games in a day to give a greater chance of a resolution. Alternatively some method of forcing the pace such as use of chess clocks for moves.
A lot of photos were taken and hopefully some of these will make their way onto the forum at some point.
Overall I was very pleased with the day and look forward to some future Lasalle events in the future. For any UK non-tournament players reading this I would say please do no be put off by the fact that this was a tournament. I do not regard myself as a competition player and do not normally play AB style games. Nonetheless this was a very enjoyable day. All the games were fun. The other players were good sports and it was a rare opportunity to meet others who are keen on Lasalle and exchange views and experiences.
Posted 1 year ago # -
The "Official Results" are:
Best Opponent: Andrew Saunders (Saxon with an organic Cavalry support).
For the Best opponent award there were 4 players each on 7 points, this was split on nobility points.
The tourney Positions:
1st..Stephen Davison (French Empire with Dragoons in reserve)..11 pts
2nd..John Paul Stubbings (Austrian Avant Garde, in the first two games he used the Infantry support and in the final game the Cuirassier reserve)..10 pts
3rd..Roger Calderbank (Bavarians with a Cavalry Support)..10 pts
4th..James Woodward (Russian Grenadiers with a plethora of options)..9 pts
5th..Nigel Nicholson (Austrian Avant Garde with the Hussar and infantry options)..9 pts
6th..Trev Allen (Russian Grenadier, with the Lt. Cavalry reserve)..8 pts
7th..Alan Charlesworth (Russian grenadier with the artillery support)..8 pts
8th..Andrew Saunders (Saxon with the cavalry support)..7 ptsThe whole event was played in the manner that was intended and the winners Andrew Saunders the the miniature painting of Napoleon as his prize, and the brass bell of Napoleon went to Stephen Davison for being the best general.
As far as I am aware there were no rules issues or complications on the day, and even "nobility points" had very little to do with the final results, other than act as tie breaks. In the 12 games played there were a total of 4 nobility points scored between all the players.
Thanks to all the guys for coming along. This was a very enjoyable day, and I will be happy to host something else based on our lunchtime discussions in the future.
Trev
Posted 1 year ago # -
Thanks Trevor a great day, a good challenge for the Saxons facing three Russian grenadier armies.
I was pleased with how well the Saxons played with 1 loss and 2 draws.
I chose to take the Saxon Core with Organic cavalry support. (I had tried to get the Polish infantry support completed in time but failed to add a bit of variety).My first game was against Trevor with Russian grenadiers and light cavalry attacking, this was a steady game with my Curassiers doing some damage to the Russian squares and pushing back the uhlans until they finally broke causing me to start break testing, my Hussars rode over the cossacks caught in march formation. But the Russian guns proved a handful wiping out my Horse battery and almost constantly keeping my foot battery limbered, My infantry predictably suffered at the roundshot and canister and although they hung on as usual the dice gods failed me on my third break test so I lost the battle.
Next up was Alan with grenadiers and the reserve artillery, and with 25 guns and having to attack them my initial thoughts were Holy Sh*t Batman. My tactic was to try to reduce the guns effectiveness, so I tried a double flanking manouver with my cavalry attacking the left flank and my grenadiers and light infantry attacking the right flank, I sensibly left my musketeers in the centre. I did manage to get my cavalry into the flank of one battery which lost the combat and with the curassiers and cheveau leger forcing the Russians into square Alan limbered up and started to move the Artillery (it ended up deployed in my side of the table) I then tried to soften the squares with artillery. on the right my grenadiers got onto the flank and started to roll up the other flank. it was a very enjoyable game but we timed out. Mainly due to us doing a lot of talking, having met for the first time.
My final game was against James (borodino) again more Russian grenadiers and this time light cavalry support. As the defender I used the cavalry to threaten the infantry and get them into square, but I could not break them bouncing twice. I did manage a lucky dice roll with canister at one battery and scored 6 hits. The remaining Russian guns steadily added disruptions onto my infantry which I could not roll off I had suffered in that department all day :) the game timed out so again a draw.
Overall a thoroughly enjoyable day. Being a non competiton gamer I was very surprised to receive the sportsmans award from the other players and chose a protrait of the Emperor as my Prize.
I look forward to the next few months and playing a few newly met opponents.Posted 1 year ago # -
An excellent day out.
Thanks to Trev for organising it.
Congratulations to the two worthy winners, Andrew and Steve.
Thanks to my three opponents James, JP, and Allan for three very enjoyable games.
I played with the Avante Garde and Hussars through out.
Allan and I could have played another 2 turns, but as we were both tired and it would not have changed the result, we finished slightly early. At least when the artillery were evading cavalry they weren't shooting! :-)
Posted 1 year ago # -
Also keep an eye out in Wargames Illustrated for a report there!
Posted 1 year ago # -
I can see we're going to have Trev a little badge made with "official" on it :)
Posted 1 year ago # -
officious is more likely!
Posted 1 year ago # -
[grin]
Posted 1 year ago # -
Hi lads, thanks to everyone for a great day and especially Trev for organising it.
Was really good to see such a variety of armies in action. You really saw the benefit of the extra skirmish and better commanders for the French which hadn't been as apparent in previous games I've played.
Looking forward to the next one. Give the Brits a run out!
Stephen
Posted 1 year ago #
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