Honour Forums

Discuss the Honour system.

1. tgreene
   Member

   Our group has been experimenting with some national characteristics rules.

   Austria: We feel the battalion mass rule, large units, and optional irregular grenzer rules give the Austrians appropriate national characteristics so we have added nothing.

   Britain (and British trained Portuguese): 2 rank line: Infantry in line receive one extra shooting dice (on top of any skirmisher advantage) but are penalized -1 melee dice.

   France: Flexible tactics: French infantry rated experienced in all periods and theaters may move full after changing formation from attack column or line while French infantry rated amateurs in all periods and theaters may move half in the same circumstances. Enemy proximity reduces this to half for experienced and none for amateurs.

   Prussia: Superbly drilled: Prussian infantry in the Conquest period may move half after changing formation even though they are linear tactics. Enemy proximity has no effect on this. In the Empire, Liberation, 100 Days Prussian infantry get the same Flexible tactics rule as the French above.

   Russia: Stoic infantry: Russian infantry units are broken when they take +1 Disruption over the number of bases in a unit (usually 5 Disruption will be needed to break a Russian infantry unit).

   Spain: None. We feel the existing list reflects the Spanish well with the Home Field Advantage and Unpredictable rules.

   Posted 4 months ago #

2. Biggreenbugeyedmonster
   Member

   >“Britain (and British trained Portuguese): 2 rank line: Infantry in line receive one extra shooting dice (on top of any skirmisher advantage) but are penalized -1 melee dice.”

   It is an Edwardian myth that the redcoats won because of their of their two-deep line. The current historiography is that the British eschewed long-range musketry in favour of tactics of “volley, cheer and bayonet charge”. If you give the British +1 dice for musketry but -1 melee dice, then they will behave contrary to their preferred tactics (for units to fire a volley at point blank range, cheer ‘huzza’, and then make a bayonet charge). Have a look at Paddy Griffith, “Forward into Battle: Fighting Tactics from Waterloo to the Near Future” - the chapter on "The alleged firepower of Wellington's infantry".

   A slightly modified version of the “bayonet charge” thesis has been taken by James Arnold in “The French Army in the Peninsula” and by Edward Coss in “All for the King's Shilling: The British Soldier Under Wellington, 1808-1814”, who argue that the reason for battlefield success of British infantry was because British infantry had a significant edge in morale over French infantry. I particularly recommend the books by Rory Muir.

   That said, I do agree with you that some of the armies can be a bit bland. Possibly you could make the rule:
   "Volley and cheer": British infantry (and Portugese infantry) in line get a +2 Combat advantage modifier.

   Or else just make British infantry Valiant and Linear Tactics.

   >“France: Flexible tactics: French infantry rated experienced in all periods and theaters may move full after changing formation from attack column or line while French infantry rated amateurs in all periods and theaters may move half in the same circumstances. Enemy proximity reduces this to half for experienced and none for amateurs.”

   I’d suggest that 1813 French conscripts or 1813 Prussian reservists and landwehr should struggle to deploy into line at all! But wasn’t the ability to deploy into line was really a matter of unit training rather than nationality?

   Isn’t the superior manoeuvrability of French armies due to their highly experienced generals – which is taken into account through the higher Vigor and higher Tactics of French generals?

   Posted 3 months ago #

3. Evan
   Member

   "Isn’t the superior manoeuvrability of French armies due to their highly experienced generals – which is taken into account through the higher Vigor and higher Tactics of French generals?"

   Yes it is BGBEM! but unfortunately having to dice for those characteristics each game means that sometimes you lose the only positive thing the French have going for them in Lasalle. Without gaining both good generalship ratings we find the French struggle to win games, especially against Austrians and Russians.

   Posted 3 months ago #

4. Biggreenbugeyedmonster
   Member

   "Without gaining both good generalship ratings we find the French struggle to win games, especially against Austrians and Russians."

   Is it that French are weaker, or that Austrian Avant-Garde, Russian Infantry, and Russian Grenadier are the three most powerful lists in the game?

   Cam/John did a points system a while ago. Assuming a base of Rel/Exp is 10 points and a 4-gun BTY is 8 points, modified by:
   +2 points Valiant, Shock, Lancer, Guards, Rifles, Heavy BTY, Horse BTY, 5 gun BTY
   -2 points if Amateur, Shaky, 3-gun BTY, Light BTY,
   +1 point SK3, Pursuit,
   -1 point SK1, Unpredictable
   x1.3 for Large
   then:

   Austrian Infantry - 92 points
   Austrian Grenadiers - 92 points
   Austrian Avant-Garde - 117 points (!!!)
   British Peninsula Infantry - 85 points
   British Hundred Days Infantry - 86 points
   British Light - 96 points
   British Guards - 89 points
   French Infantry - 88 points
   French Liberation Infantry - 89 points
   Prussian Liberation infantry - 81 points
   Prussian Hundred Days - 87 points
   Russian Infantry - 103 points (!)
   Russian Grenadier - 112 points (!!)

   I think the core AB lists are remarkably well balanced. However, British Peninsula is a little weak (though still playable), Prussian Liberation is weak (though having organic cavalry is a big bonus which the points don't factor in). But on the other hand Russian Infantry has an advantage (a major advantage if using Home Field Advantage), Russian Grenadier has a major advantage, and Austrian Avant-Garde is heavily unbalanced in favour of the Austrian player.

   So I'd suggest that any consideration of "national characteristics" should take into account that most AB core divisions seem reasonably balanced already.

   Incidentally, when are you down in Wellington next?

   Posted 3 months ago #

5. Biggreenbugeyedmonster
   Member

   Ooops - Avant-Garde is miscounted.
   1 Jager @10 = 10
   2 Grenz(+) @10-2-1x1.3 = 18
   2 Infantry(+) @10-1x1.3 = 24
   1 Uhlan @10+1+2x1.3 = 17
   1 Cavalry BTY = 8
   1 Hussar = 17
   1 Inf(+) = 12
   106 points.

   Posted 3 months ago #

6. Evan
   Member

   I'm not sure when I'll be in Wellington, when is the next big weekend event?

   Posted 3 months ago #

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