Hi there, just a quick question
After our first game today of Lasalle (which was fun, even though i lost) i do have a question,
During set up for the game, you decide who is the attacker / defender, roll for the map and then add extra terrain, this is the bit that I get stuck on.
The attacker can not put terrain in the defender set up zone, but how do you know which zone this is as you decide that after all the terrain is down.
Or am i missing something?
Tim
You decide who's attacker and defender, then put down the extra terrain. See the list at the start of that chapter, not the order of paragraphs a couple of pages later.
Ahh my bad, stupid first game mistakes.
It just seems a tad odd to pick sides before you know the full lay of the land.....
Tim
You actually "pick" a table edge twice.
It is not explicitly stated, but before the set up begins (or perhaps after step 1 roll the weather) players take a table side. That is used for setting out terrain, but is temporary.
As part of step 6 - set up, the defender picks their preferred long edge and sets up first, or lets the attacker choose long edge and sets up second.
Which side of the table you stand on when terrain is being laid out is actually irrelevant since the actual side you end up is not decided until terrain is laid out.
But it is a bit confusing as it says you can't place terrain in the other guys set up before you actually where what his set up zone is ...
Cam
That's because you don't choose twice - you only choose once, after the basic table has been laid out, but before you put down extra terrain - in which case you DO know where each player will be. See p. 86, the handy little chart there...
1. Roll weather
2. Roll the board
3. Choose rules (Att/ DEF)
5. Customise board
6. Place objective
7. Set-up
8. Attacker moves first.
People are getting confused because of the placement of the paragraph on p. 90 about Setup zones - if it was the first para on that page, I don't think people would be having this problem. However, if you use the list (given above) on p. 86, it's clear what order things should be done in.
Well if that is the intent it is unclear - the defender choosing edge/set up 2nd should be an explicit step in the set-up process.
Happy wherever Sam wants it to be, but I did not read it that it was at step 3 (although it can certainly be read that way).
Cam
Cheers for that list Nick,
It makes more sense to me now. :)
The list is on p. 86. :)
"The list is on p. 86. :) "
... which would be more helpful if choosing table edge was on it, especially as the sections on p87-91 follow the sequence in the table - but you are saying the Setup zones section (or at least the para on choosing sides) is in the wrong place and should be at the end of choosing roles or the start of customising the board.
Cam
I'm having trouble figuring out why there is confusion. As Nick says, the "Setup" chapter opens with an enumerated list of the Steup steps, and then the chapter proceeds in that order, explaining each step.
i hadnt problem setting up our first game at all.
everything is clear
Probably just me.
The only place I can see where it says the defender chooses the table edge is in the "Set Up Zone" section, which comes **AFTER** the "Customise" terrain section.
The defender choosing table edge (or "Set Up Zone") is not mentioned in the setup sequence on pg86.
I therefore interpreted this as meaning that the defender table edge choice is part of Customising Terrain and comes ***AFTER*** the Customising of terrain itself is done. So we follow the sequence on page 86, with the defender choosing table edge being the last step of Customising Terrain.
Nick is saying it isn't - it comes ***BEFORE*** Customsing terrain (or as the first step of customising terrain).
But I see nothing that tells me that explicitly. It is certainly more logical - in fact it is most logical that it is done as the last step of "Choose Roles".
Cam
Im going with the first game missing an important section defense , Your honour :)
But it all makes sense now,
Im more concerned that the french can beat the british it does not seem right at all, these rules must be broken :)
To me the confusion comes from there being a difference between setup zones and setup. Selecting your side of the board is the last part of customizing the board if you will. It clearly states defender has the option to pick first. So, up until that point it doesn't matter who's on which side. After the objective is place, the armies are then "setup" on the board.
1. Roll weather
2. Roll the board
3. Choose rules (Att/ DEF)
5. Customise board
5a. Select board sides
6. Place objective
7. Set-up
8. Attacker moves first.
when are people rolling for character of sub-commanders...we have done it at 7a (after set up)... but maybe should be done 3a???
ajbartman - the defender chooses which side before you customise the table, not after. It's part of the choosing which role (attacker / defender) section of the list. You can tell that's where it is because when you do customise the table, it says that you aren't allowed to put terrain in your opponent's set-up area without his permission. This means that you have to have chosen which side you're going to be using before you get to the customise part.
Zel - it doesn't really matter when you do it, as long as it's before the game starts.
I see said the blind man...
The order of the paragraphs is confusing to me but when I read in detail I fully agree. It help to read the whole section, including "Home Field Advantage." I read it now that "Having chosen the board..." includes choosing a board edge therefor it would come BEFORE customizing the board. Thanks...
Allen
Nick,
I think you are missing Cam's point but you agreed earlier, there is a section/paragraph out of order.
Page 86 does have a list of the Setup Procedure. This list makes a callout for the following sections in the chapter.
Page 87 has "Choose the Roles" and does not once mention choosing a "side" of the table.
The beginning of Page 90 has "Customize the Board" and the last paragraph of the section at the top of the second column is the first mention of the opponent's setup zone.
The next and last section on page 90 "Setup Zones" defines the setup zones and says who picks.
So it is clear that while the list on page 86 has:
3. Choose Roles
4. Customize Board
5. Place the Objective
The paragraphs for actually choosing the board sides is out of order and should be before Customizing the Board. Home Field Advantage on page 76 uses the correct order of choosing board edges and then customizing the board.
Longwinded for such a minor nit, sorry,
Randy
Zel: "when are people rolling for character of sub-commanders...we have done it at 7a (after set up)... but maybe should be done 3a???"
N-the-L" "Zel - it doesn't really matter when you do it, as long as it's before the game starts."
I think it would matter. You can't allocate your force to commanders nor roll for them until you know how many units and commanders you have. So the earliest is in step 3.
But it would make a difference if you leave the force allocation and rolling for commanders until after you have (a) customised the terrain, or (b) seen where the objective is, or (c) seen where the other guy has deployed. It could lead to a player choosing quite a different force allocation.
I think it should be done in step 3 but see nothing explicit that says it must be done then.
Cam
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