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Subcommanders

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Started 1 year ago by drferling
Latest reply from pgbldwn

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drferling
Member

I'm a bit confused with subcommanders and independent units. I understand that a defending core list gets a commander and a subcommander. The subcommander then needs to form a force with at least 2 units from the core. Is it legal to have the remaining units under the direct command of the force commander? This seems like something that the armies with statistically poorer subcommanders would want to do.

Also are support choices delivered packaged with their subcommanders? For example, is it legal to "drop off" a horse artillery battery for the overall commander to baby-sit while the cav rides off with the original subcommander?

J

Posted 1 year ago #
marke
Member

I believe that in the AB all units have to be assigned to a sub-commander - so no independent units on setup. That does not mean the units have to be in the sub-commanders command range for deployment though, just that you can't have AB troops which start independent to avoid poor vigor impacts for their potential sub-commanders.

During the game, if units are out of range of the sub-commander but are still within the range of the commander then they are not out of command. There are no rules which force you to have units stay within a sub-commanders command range but there is a penalty for not being in command.

This allows the defender to have 1 more functional groups of troops than the number of sub commanders they have. That is those under the sub-commander(s) plus one group for those who have direct command from the overall commander. This also allows you, to in your terms, 'drop off' reserve troops which may be controlled by the overall commander, as he is in their chain of command- their boss's boss so to speak. However, those troops are still impacted by the vigor roll of their sub-commander and tactics impacts if they are in range of their sub-commander.

Interestingly, for some armies such as the Ottomans with poor vigor rolls and all amateur troops, putting the sub-commanders on the fringes of the battle, and letting the commander take an active part can significantly help the army. I should do this next time... :)

Well, that's how I understand the rules and I'm sure others will comment if I'm wrong.I hope it helps.

Posted 1 year ago #
Crottin de Chavignol
Member

My impression (without re-reading the rules) and the way we were playing it in last Saturday's games was that while each sub-commander needed to have at least two units under their command, you can have any or all remaining units of your core force under the direct control of your overall commander.

Any units from a supporting brigade must be under the command of the leader of that brigade.

Troops from a supporting brigade that starts on table do not have to be deployed in command with their brigadeer and can be controlled by the overall commander (for example, deploying a reinforcement horse battery with your core force foot battery in the center while the rest of the light cav starts off on a wing) using the 'I'm with stupid' rule.

Troops from a supporting brigade that arrive as reinforcments must be deployed in command with their commander.

I have the impression that troops with a really poor commander (poor tactics or poor vigor) suffer from that even if they are currently being commanded by the overall commander but I'd need to check on that.

Posted 1 year ago #
DJoker
Member

I think marke has it right...I believe every unit must be assigned to a subcommander. If there are more than one to start, then each one must have at least 2 units assigned. If there is only one, then all units are assigned to that subcommander. I'm basing that from the line from pg. 95 "..a player must create forces by assigning core units to the subcommanders." Seeing as how forces must be created, and the way to create them is by assigning them to subcommanders, and not commanders, then everything must fall under a subcommander.

As far as support brigades are concerned, from the same section "A support brigade already is one force, with its subcommander assigned". That seems to mean that the units of support brigades are already assigned to their subcommander.

It doesn't seem that any of this leaves units "unassigned" to be independent. Now, of course, as long as they are in the commanders radius they could behave as such, but in the end, it looks as though everything gets assigned to a subcommander to begin with.

-Scott

Posted 1 year ago #
drferling
Member

I was inclined to agree with Marke as well, but still have a few questions. First, what is an independent unit and when is it's status defined: in the army builder, in the force creation phase, or variably during the game?

Secondly, how does the optional rule for commanders / subcommanders interact with this? (See the links section of the site, optional rules, page 3.) From looking at that it appears that artillery can be independent. Can other units?

Posted 1 year ago #
Sam Mustafa
Le Grand Fromage

Anything could potentially be "independent" on a historical scenario, but the Army Builder doesn't set anything up that way.

When I wrote the game I had no way of knowing whether people would use it more often to play historical scenarios - in which the independent unit is often an important concept - or whether they'd exclusively play Army Builder games. The latter appears to be the case, which means that the independent unit rule is largely obsolete.

Posted 1 year ago #
cam_millar
Member

"There are no rules which force you to have units stay within a sub-commanders command range..."

One caveat - the moving officer rules on p28 say "he can move any distance to a new position which must be within command range of one of his units".

So units don't have to stay in command range of the subcommander, but if the officer moves he must end with at least one of his units in command range.

The absolute pedant would argue that p24 says that you "move each unit of that force" and "move the subcommander" so you can't choose not to move - only move zero distance, which means the subcommander must move and therefore must move to be within command range of at least one of his units each turn. So a subcommander will always command at least one unit throughout the game.

Cam

Posted 1 year ago #
pgbldwn
Member

If it is the intention that all units of a core force are assigned to a subordinate commander then the "I'm with Stupid" optional rule would appear to create significant problems, particularly for a defender with only one "core" subordinate.

In effect the force, to be in command would have to be 6BW from the sub or only 4BW from the CinC. Practically that gives roughly 20BW of absolute frontage that can be commanded and that is certainly stretching it. Without the rule the command frontage would be 32BW.

Posted 1 year ago #

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