
As promised the AAR report of Cam & my latest game, with 100-Days AB lists:
http://wargaming.info/2011/the-hundred-days-continues/

As promised the AAR report of Cam & my latest game, with 100-Days AB lists:
http://wargaming.info/2011/the-hundred-days-continues/
Another great AAR, so really the British were defending the wine collection from the French then :)
On a related note how are you finding the British army? Im just not sure about it but I cant quite put my finger on what I feel is missing.
Given most of the wine was French, it was more a matter of recapturing what was ours.
Cam
Spot on Battle report lads...very nicely painted mini's as well:)
I noticed the subcommanders seemed better on the French side, a good tactical sub commander can be a massive help greatly! combine him with good vigor and he can be very decisive:)
moving on to the Brits....I have played the Brits plenty of times and the more I use them they really shine in defense...forget about the non organic cav just setup a good defensive position, advance to meet your enemy and await the arrival of the British cav to sway the battle. keep your fingers crossed that you get some good vigor commanders as a poor one can be a bit of a pain if you need to form square or fallback in time!
I tend to use the Light Division the most with Heavy cavalry reserve, sometimes I use the Brunswick support....the Brits though are not one of the easier armies to use but they certainly can hold their own especially defending...
cheers Paul
Tim: Another great AAR, so really the British were defending the wine collection from the French then :)Cam:Given most of the wine was French, it was more a matter of recapturing what was ours.
Tim: On a related note how are you finding the British army? Im just not sure about it but I cant quite put my finger on what I feel is missing.
I think the other thing is in the Hundred Days the British & French Infantry are identical and the French have a small edge in commanders (but both sides are above average). So it comes down to a straight numbers game and the strength of the supporting arms - artillery & cavalry. The base lists for French & British 100-Days are identical (as are most of the reserve options) except the French get slightly better commanders & a larger artillery battery for no corresponding benefit of some kind on the British side - whether that's of any real significance in any single game I doubt - but it just reinforces the bland (or perhaps 'toothless') feeling the Brits have. But that's all just speculation - as above I wouldn't really wan tot comment until I've got a few more games in and attacked a couple of times and had a chance to use Highlanders & Rifles and such...
In the Hundred Days such troops were a high percentage of the British Infantry, and I'm surprised you don't get at least 2 Battalions, maybe even 3, in the core Infantry Division force (Rifles, Light Regiments, Highlanders, 23rd Fusiliers, and if you allow the proportion of KGL Riflemen, etc, equal about 40% of the Infantry - 11 of 27 battalions after excluding the 4 Guards Btns as they have their own list). If you exclude the Brigades that didn't actively fight at Quatre Bras and/or Waterloo the ratio is even higher, nearly 50%. So I think bland is the right word - they just don't seem to have any character nor anyone with any Élan on first impressions!
:-)
Paul: moving on to the Brits....I have played the Brits plenty of times and the more I use them they really shine in defense...forget about the non organic cav just setup a good defensive position, advance to meet your enemy and await the arrival of the British cav to sway the battle.
...keep your fingers crossed that you get some good vigor commanders as a poor one can be a bit of a pain if you need to form square or fallback in time!
P.S. Last night I corrected the OOB at the bottom of the article - so the correct factors are now showing for the generals. :-)
Cam pointed it out initially but I don't recall remembering it with all the cavalry charges and such over there and don't know if Cam was doing it automatically and I just didn't notice
You get one hint ... then it is up to you.
We also forgot when we used it to see if your officer dies - from memory your officer can die if you try to use my officer's bad tactics, which is not intuitive.
[bit deleted here because next post pointed out it was wrong]
Cam
Umm you sure about that Cam?
I dont have my rulebook here at work, but if the troops are under command, which I would take as within 6 BW then he could use the -1 Tactics of your commander (if he remembered)
Tim
Thinking again - I suspect I am wrong.
I will change my earlier post .. then everyone will wonder what the hell you are going on about!
Cam
Well that seems fair Cam people already think I am a tad odd here, that just feeds the fire :)
Gosh - Now I'm not sure where I am at all?! :-o
BTW - Tim - The more I think about it the more I wonder if it is just a case of allowing a greater number of British units Valiant status (or to be Rifles) in the standard "Infantry Division" list - perhaps 1/3 to 2/3 of the standard line Infantry - just to give them that extra punch factor so they can charge after exchanging musketry with a slight advantage in most cases). Essentially in line with the ratios I mentioned above in the 100-Days and the similar (although slightly lower) ratios in the Peninsula.
BTW - I presume you've seen the related comments on the British in this thread: http://www.sammustafa.com/honour/forum/topic/battle-of-fuentes-de-onoro
One 'off the cuff' thought would the Standard British Infantry Division & the Brigade Option (of 6 and 4 standard Infantry Battalions each) could instead be something like:
Division - Peninsula
2 x Valiant Infantry
4 x Standard Infantry (as current)
1 x Valiant Infantry (as current)
1 x Standard Infantry (as current)
Division - Hundred Days
3 x Valiant Infantry (1 may be chosen as Rifles Infantry instead)*
3 x Standard Infantry (as current)
2 x Standard Infantry (as current)
Reserve Infantry Brigade Option - Peninsula or Hundred Days
2 x Valiant Infantry
2 x Standard Infantry (as current)
* The Peninsula has the Light Division, but the 100-Days doesn't really have an equivalent and there needs to be an option to have a Rifle or Light Battalion represented in some formations (Brigades)...
Of course it might just all be too much hassle to bother with and/or the difference in the game to be too subtle to worry about... As Paul mentioned in the Fuentes de Oñoro thread there were British Battalions that were especially noteworthy for combat performance, over and above the Highlanders, Rifles & Lights, and most of the Fusiliers, so it may be the Brits just need that touch of Élan added? :-)
...and I'm not just trying to jack my Brits up cause I've lost a couple of games - but instead just toss a few ideas out there to be shot down... ;-)
John I have long felt there was something missing in the British list one of my posts was even quoted on TMP about it(which made me feel very odd). I just dont want to make the British an uber army and I think that your list might strike the right balance.
Of course now we will need to have some games with it to see if it is any good ;)
Regarding the British in the Peninsula, I have written something up here: http://sites.google.com/site/honourscenarios/alternative-peninsula-british
Regarding the Hundred Days:
At Waterloo Wellington put his best Anglo-Hanoverian troops in the frontline - the Hanoverian Landwehr were placed in the second line, and some of the inexperienced British battalions were placed in the rear (i.e. Brussels!). Most of the units Wellington relied on at Waterloo were "old Spanish infantry", and were thoroughly battle-hardened professional outfits.
Wargamers focus on Highlanders or Fusiliers as being somehow special. But ethnic or county titles or glorious honorifics counted for little. More important was whether the battalion was (a) a first (or senior or old) battalion and (b) one of the original BEF battalions selected in 1808 from Moore's Portsmouth camp or Wellesley's Cork camp.
Each of the frontline divisions had either a battalion of the 95th rifles or KGL light battalions who had a high proportion with Baker rifles. So one of the core battalions should be Rifles.
The British/Hanoverians should be linear tactics. The 1792 instructions were quite clear - battalions deployed into line once within firing range of the enemy.
It is still sometimes argued that the British were peculiarly effective at skirmishing. This arises from Oman assessing the Light Infantry and Rifles at Bussaco, and generalising it to all British infantry (Oman also confused "flankers" and light infantry companies...). More recent work by Arthur Harman concludes the opposite - that the British Line were inferior at skirmishing to the French and depended on attached riflemen to give them cover. Have a read of Mike Robinson's awesome "Quatre Bras", which describes how British battalions suffered horribly from French skirmishers, and needed to make repeated bayonet charges to force the French back. Even at Waterloo, the 1/52nd Light Infantry got pestered by French skirmishers and needed to make a bayonet charge to drive them away. So I'd argue that, except for the 95th Rifles and the KGL Light Battalions, British infantry should be SK1.
So my Hundred Days British (based on Picton's Division at Quatre Bras and Waterloo) would be:
1 Rifle (Val/Exp/SK3 Rifles linear tactics)
5 KGL/British Infantry (Val/Exp/SK1 linear tactics)
1 RA BTY
2 KGL/British Infantry (Val/Exp/SK1 linear tactics)
Organic Brigade: Hanoverian Landwehr.
Cheers
Paul
Guys - please note my Domain just got hi-jacked about 20 minutes ago - got the security guys in U.S. looking at it - so if you try to get to the game reports you'll just get a spammer 'search site'...
OK - Looks like we're back - Phewwwwww!
So my Hundred Days British (based on Picton's Division at Quatre Bras and Waterloo) would be...
Me: Permission to say Points System in a loud and annoying voice
Forum: Permission reluctantly granted
Me: "POINTS SYSTEM!"
FWIW based on the points system I derived (http://awc.wargaming.info/napoleonics-1790-1840/in-search-of-points-lasalle), Paul's British-are-really-1805-Austrian-Grenadiers list is 88 points - same as the French 1815 core list. I would have no problems playing it to see what happens.
John's Peninsula and 100 Day Divisions lists above are both 93pts - a bit too strong in my opinion.
Cam
Paul: Regarding the British in the Peninsula, I have written something up here: http://sites.google.com/site/honourscenarios/alternative-peninsula-british
Paul: Wargamers focus on Highlanders or Fusiliers as being somehow special.
Paul: Each of the frontline divisions had either a battalion of the 95th rifles or KGL light battalions who had a high proportion with Baker rifles. So one of the core battalions should be Rifles.
Paul: Even at Waterloo, the 1/52nd Light Infantry got pestered by French skirmishers and needed to make a bayonet charge to drive them away. So I'd argue that, except for the 95th Rifles and the KGL Light Battalions, British infantry should be SK1.
Cam: FWIW based on the points system I derived (http://awc.wargaming.info/napoleonics-1790-1840/in-search-of-points-lasalle), Paul's British-are-really-1805-Austrian-Grenadiers list is 88 points - same as the French 1815 core list. I would have no problems playing it to see what happens.
John: Guys - please note my Domain just got hi-jacked about 20 minutes ago...
Me: Permission to say Points System in a loud and annoying voice
Forum: Permission reluctantly granted
Me: "POINTS SYSTEM!"
So just on a related note if British Light Cav Bde were also Paul's Reliable/Experienced/Shock rating(instead of the AB Rel/Exp/Pursuit) then points wise (incl. RHA Bty) they'd be 53 versus the existing 47. Thoughts?
P.S. BTW - I wonder (incidentally) if the pursuit value is a little underrated - since while it adds nothing to combat value on table it does help prevent the enemy getting a decisive victory if you lose, and helps achieve it if you win? In a competition sense that would be a critical benefit surely?
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